The people who see Mark Bellhorn play on a regular basis say that he's average defensively, which is a better grade than Walker got.

 

 

 

Well, what makes "the people's" view any different than mine. I would say that has more to do with Walker's poor reputation more than anything else. As a matter of fact, Walker was much, much better defensively than Hairston was this season at 2nd base for the Cubs. I guarantee you that Hairston has a better reputation on the fan's scouting report, and thus has better rankings.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 09:48 PM)

I believe Mark Bellhorn's .328 OBP would rank higher than everyone else on the team besides Podsednik, Iguchi, and Konerko.

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You are correct, and as I mentioned a few days ago. Watching how badly Bellhorn has struggled this year, that is one of the most disgusting statistics I have ever seen.

Well, what makes "the people's" view any different than mine.  I would say that has more to do with Walker's poor reputation more than anything else.  As a matter of fact, Walker was much, much better defensively than Hairston was this season at 2nd base for the Cubs.  I guarantee you that Hairston has a better reputation on the fan's scouting report, and thus has better rankings.

 

What makes the fans scouting report different than your opinion?

 

Uh, 'cause there's about 80 of them who said that Bellhorn is average defensively at second, and about 15 who said that Walker is awful on defense.

 

And then there's you and your opinion.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 10:13 PM)

Last year, Bellhorn (in 124 games at 2B) had a ZR of .843.  This year, in 82 games as a 2B, he's had a ZR of .817.

 

In 2003, playing 139 games for Boston, Walker had a .788 ZR.  In 89 games at 2B in 2004, he had an .824 ZR.  In 2005, in 72 games, he's had a ZR of .830. 

 

For some reason, I can only access Mark Bellhorn's PECOTA page on Baseball Prospectus, but last year, they have Bellhorn as five runs worse than the average 2B-man. 

 

Tango Tiger's Scouting Report:  By The Fans, For the Fans has Walker below average in each of the seven categories.  Meanwhile, it has Bellhorn as just about average in each of the seven categories.

 

I'm not going to act like I know he's better -- because I don't.  But, I find it absolutely histerical that you KNOW that Walker is underrated defensively, and that you KNOW that Bellhorn is below average defensively.

 

It's a joke, really...

Difference being, in a couple of days, Bellhorn will come free.  Walker will cost a pretty good prospect, IMO.

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There's no question on this one, my freind.

 

Mark Bellhorn is very similar to Bill Mueller defensively in that he's a very quiet, humble guy whose defensive statistics don't do him justice. I can't remember more than one or two plays that Bellhorn had really boffed, Crede-esque(haha). Hell, even the play he got injured on, he got to the ball...

What makes the fans scouting report different than your opinion?

 

Uh, 'cause there's about 80 of them who said that Bellhorn is average defensively at second, and about 15 who said that Walker is awful on defense.

 

And then there's you and your opinion.

 

And like I said, it's all based on reputation, in my opinion. I've never heard of this "fan scouting report" before. Walker had a terrible reputation for his defense in Boston.

I would rather have Todd Walker on my team than Willie Harris who was recalled today as Crede went on the DL. The White Sox need to pick up someone who can hit or there will be no joy at the end of this baseball season.

I would rather have Todd Walker on my team than Willie Harris who was recalled today as Crede went on the DL. The White Sox need to pick up someone who can hit or there will be no joy at the end of this baseball season.

 

Super, another weak hitting infielder on the Sox.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 11:46 PM)

Walker had a terrible reputation for his defense in Boston.

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deservingly so..

 

As for Tangotiger, his stuff is brilliant. I started a thread here a while ago without much interest.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 11:47 PM)

I would rather have Todd Walker on my team than Willie Harris who was recalled today as Crede went on the DL. The White Sox need to pick up someone who can hit or there will be no joy at the end of this baseball season.

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No doubt about that.

And like I said, it's all based on reputation, in my opinion.  I've never heard of this "fan scouting report" before.  Walker had a terrible reputation for his defense in Boston.

 

???

 

Ok. I'll still trust 80 pairs of eyes than one pair...

 

Who cares if you've never heard of it?

???

 

Ok.  I'll still trust 80 pairs of eyes than one pair...

 

Who cares if you've never heard of it?

 

Drop it. I could care less what this "poll" says. I don't get where you ever thought I said Walker was better defensively than Bellhorn. We need HITTING, and Walker is better than that.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 11:52 PM)

Drop it.  I could care less what this "poll" says.  I don't get where you ever thought I said Walker was better defensively than Bellhorn.  We need HITTING, and Walker is better than that.

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I'm of the belief that this team needs base runners. Mark Bellhorn gets on base just as well as Todd Walker.

Drop it.  I could care less what this "poll" says.  I don't get where you ever thought I said Walker was better defensively than Bellhorn.  We need HITTING, and Walker is better than that.

 

It sure sounded like that when you said 'Todd Walker is underrated defensively', and in the Bellhorn thread, that 'Mark Bellhorn is bad defensively'.

 

I could care less what this "poll" says.

 

Well, that's pretty ignorant. Then again, I guess I should've considered the source.

Griff is happy in Cincy, winning isn't everything.

 

It's the only thing.

It sure sounded like that when you said 'Todd Walker is underrated defensively', and in the Bellhorn thread, that 'Mark Bellhorn is bad defensively'.

Well, that's pretty ignorant.  Then again, I guess I should've considered the source.

 

Wow, nice personal attack there. Classy! I'm just going to refrain from coming back with a comment about you.

So... Todd Walker..

It's the only thing.

Obviously it's not or he'd be all for comming here and a guy like Palmeiro would have gone to the Cubs when they had a chance to win and he declined the trade because he wanted to stay in Texas.

Obviously it's not or he'd be all for comming here and a guy like Palmeiro would have gone to the Cubs when they had a chance to win and he declined the trade because he wanted to stay in Texas.

 

Griffey is wrong. And he should be coming here.

Wow, nice personal attack there.  Classy!  I'm just going to refrain from coming back with a comment about you.

 

Personal attack? I said that's ignorant, to say "I could care less what this 'poll' says", which it is. If you take it as a personal attack, then that's your problem.

Personal attack?  I said that's ignorant, to say "I could care less what this 'poll' says", which it is.  If you take it as a personal attack, then that's your problem.

 

You called me ignorant. You said you weren't surprised considering the source. In my book, that's a personal attack. I'm sure you won't get in trouble, so I'll just drop it. And since when do I have to form my opinion because of what some "fan scouting report" says? It sure sounds like a scientific judgment of a player's attributes. Thankfully, Bellhorn is going to sign with the Yankees tomorrow, so this lovefest for a well below average player will end.

I don;t really have strong feelings on Levine one way or another besides that I had a sub in high school that sounded like him which is kind of wierd when I hear him talk. In his defense, I think he broke the Andy Pettitte story of signing with the stros. At least, espnews gave him all the credit. Just saying

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 04:54 AM)

You called me ignorant.  You said you weren't surprised considering the source.  In my book, that's a personal attack.  I'm sure you won't get in trouble, so I'll just drop it.  And since when do I have to form my opinion because of what some "fan scouting report" says?  It sure sounds like a scientific judgment of a player's attributes. Thankfully, Bellhorn is going to sign with the Yankees tomorrow, so this lovefest for a well below average player will end.

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If Bellhorn is well below average, I wonder what that says about Joe Crede, Juan Uribe and some other White Sox players. Yikes.

If Bellhorn is well below average, I wonder what that says about Joe Crede, Juan Uribe and some other White Sox players.  Yikes.

 

Yep, Crede and Uribe are extremely below average offensively this season. Those two are the biggest reasons for the Sox below average offense this season. How can you argue that Bellhorn isn't below average this season?

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 05:17 AM)

Yep, Crede and Uribe are extremely below average offensively this season.  Those two are the biggest reasons for the Sox below average offense this season.  How can you argue that Bellhorn isn't below average this season?

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, Mark Bellhorn has been terrible this season.

So... Todd Walker..

sounds good to me!