why are you so anti-orton.

 

/pauses, waits for the flame war to begin

why are you so anti-orton.

he hasn't brought anything to the table. he isn't asked to anything, and when he is, it usually ends up with him overthrowing his receiver. if Grossman's healthy, put him in.

Grossman > Orton

 

And I have never heard any sort of scouting report that said Grossman was to small to be an NFL QB.

 

In fact I believe that prior to entering the NFL, Grossman had suffered 0 injuries. Compare that to Orton who had some injuries in college and the argument just gets more and more ridiculous.

 

Grossman has had a string of bad luck, starting with Spurrier leaving him to play under Zook. Zook completely decimated that offense and Grossman left after his junior year some what less NFL ready than he was after his Sophmore year.

 

When Grossman finally can get on the field, he should be quality.

 

SB

Barring another leg injury, Grossman has better escapability than Orton, IMO.

he hasn't brought anything to the table.  he isn't asked to anything, and when he is, it usually ends up with him overthrowing his receiver.  if Grossman's healthy, put him in.

He was asked to win the game this past Sunday and made a tremendous pass to Mushin to set up the game winning score. The Bears obviously can't ask for him to do too much, but thus far he's done whats been asked of him.

 

Its not like they have called a ton of plays down field for him. They got a little more agressive against the Saints and to be honest he didn't play that well, but he was able to overcome all his bad throws to make some really good ones when necessary.

Barring another leg injury, Grossman has better escapability than Orton, IMO.

Grossman really had a knack for feeling the pressure and escaping. I have long been a Grossman fan. But right now I think all this is a moot point. 1st Grossman needs to get back on the field and begin practicing and showing us that his ankle is 100%.

 

Once thats the case than we can talk more about this, imo. That said next years training camp battle is going to be awesome and for once I will be able to say that I'm happy with the depth the Bears have at the QB position (in fact I think we'll be drafting one again next year to take over as a 3rd stringer).

IMO you can't change qb's in the middle of the season with a first place team but that's just me.

IMO you can't change qb's in the middle of the season with a first place team but that's just me.

I agree. Prior to this past game Orton had went a few games without a pick and had thrown a few td's. Hell, he helped beat a good Baltimore defense (albeit it a horrible team) and threw no picks (an impressive feat).

 

Now if Orton was turning the ball over left and right each week (he does fumble it too much, but some of the times it has just been total fluke plays) than I'd be talking more about going to Grossman. I see the arm and the tools in Orton, just like I see them in Grossman (in fact as much as I love Orton's arm, I like Rex more and I like Rex footwork and mechanics better). That said Orton has taken the hits all season and has stayed healthy and some throws he makes are ones only very good QB's can do (because he has the arm strenght to make them).

 

We got two potentially good to great QB's or will in a few more weeks. Obviously they aren't at that point yet, but both have all the tools necessary and are in an offensive system that protects the qb (cause they run the ball a lot) as well as helps the qb (Turner is able to use a lot of playaction and is willing to go down field). Really this is an offense that a year from now, may be one of the up and coming offenses in the league (it just needs a little more time for the qb's to develop as well as the time to get another WR in here to go with Mushin and Bradley next year). Plus Benson and TJones will be that much better of a duo. I really like what the Bears offense is going to look like a year or two from now and I feel the same way about the defense (this group is almost entirely locked up for the next few years, sans Zoom..plus I think Briggs is due to sign an extension and hopefully he will).

 

Call me crazy, but within the next 3 years I see the Bears having a super bowl team. Next year may be a little early, but with the right moves I could see it happening as soon as next year.

He was asked to win the game this past Sunday and made a tremendous pass to Mushin to set up the game winning score.  The Bears obviously can't ask for him to do too much, but thus far he's done whats been asked of him.

 

Its not like they have called a ton of plays down field for him.  They got a little more agressive against the Saints and to be honest he didn't play that well, but he was able to overcome all his bad throws to make some really good ones when necessary.

 

Asked to win? He almost loss us that game.... 2 interceptions and a fumble...... not 2 mention if it wasnt for a ticky tack pass interference would of been 3 interceptions...... That was one of Ortons worse games.... he made a few nice throws at the end.... but how about our RB's going easily over 100 mark in the 2nd half alone....

IMO you can't change qb's in the middle of the season with a first place team but that's just me.

it is the NFC North, 7 games might win it. and though they haven't called for too many downfield passes, the few they have were all overthrows. he's made some impressive throws, and a couple in tight spots (like the one mention above that set up the win), but he hasn't been overly impressive at all, that's why I say it's his job to lose and then it shouldn't take more than 3 bad quarters in a winnable game to lose it. and when you say he was able to overcome his bad throws, it's more like the defense was able to overcome his bad throws and give himself a chance to redeem himself.

Grossman

 

There, I said it. I don't know what's so special about Grossman.

Im not talking about height Im really talking about weight.  Brees is actually mobile enough to buy time to throw to his receivers.

Brees is 209 pounds. Grossman is 218 pounds.

 

Make no mistake, Brees is a pocket passer.

Asked to win?  He almost loss us that game.... 2 interceptions and a fumble...... not 2 mention if it wasnt for a ticky tack pass interference would of been 3 interceptions...... That was one of Ortons worse games.... he made a few nice throws at the end.... but how about our RB's going easily over 100 mark in the 2nd half alone....

Yeah the running game definitely carried you guys in the 2nd half. It wasn't like Orton was forced to pass almost all the time in the 2nd half, and carry this team on his back. If you read the game thread, people weren't happy with Orton overthrowing receivers.

IMO you can't change qb's in the middle of the season with a first place team but that's just me.

I think once Chicago starts facing the Carolina's and Orton struggles, then the calls to change to Rex will start coming. Make no mistake Chicago's got a real chance to make some noise in the NFC this season.

 

Seattle, Dallas, New York Giants, Chicago, Carolina, Atlanta.

 

Now anyone could win out of those teams, there's no dominant one right there.

why are you so anti-orton.

Because maybe he is smart enough to realise if the Bears had a good to great QB, they'd be an even better team.

Grossman

 

There, I said it.  I don't know what's so special about Grossman.

great point...now what's so special about Orton?

Because the the scouting report coming out of college was that he wasn't physically big enough and he wasn't that mobile.  It said that he would get injured very quickly in the NFL.

 

Grossman, IIRC, didn't miss a game during his whole college or high school career.

 

Yet, the scouting report said he would get injured very quickly? Please, come up with a new schtick, because you're not bringing a whole lot right now...

Grossman, IIRC, didn't miss a game during his whole college or high school career.

 

Yet, the scouting report said he would get injured very quickly?  Please, come up with a new schtick, because you're not bringing a whole lot right now...

Saying that a guy didn't miss a game in either high school or college says nothing about what will happen to them in the pros. The people in the pros are far bigger, stronger, and faster than guys in college. Being able to elude people in college doesn't necessarily translate to eluding anything in the pros. Staying healthy in college doesn't mean you'll survive taking the hits you do as a pro.

 

You could be healthy your entire career, then have 1 340 pound defensive tackle nail you when your leg is locked, and suddenly you're in a lot worse shape.

 

You have to do better than just that if you want to disprove the other person's claim. I have no idea if that's what the scouting report said or not, but don't for a second think that the pro game is the exact analog of the college game.

it is the NFC North, 7 games might win it.  and though they haven't called for too many downfield passes, the few they have were all overthrows.  he's made some impressive throws, and a couple in tight spots (like the one mention above that set up the win), but he hasn't been overly impressive at all, that's why I say it's his job to lose and then it shouldn't take more than 3 bad quarters in a winnable game to lose it.  and when you say he was able to overcome his bad throws, it's more like the defense was able to overcome his bad throws and give himself a chance to redeem himself.

Disagree, looking at the schedules its coming down to the final game of the season. I expect Chicago to have a 1 game lead on Minnesota, looking for the win to give them the for sure clinch. Minny has a lot of really easy games coming up while the Bears are going to start playing some more difficult teams.

 

That said if Chicago can win Sunday against San Fran and than sweep GB (easier said than done) and they will have 8 wins. Minny isn't a very good team, but they looked a lot better with Brad Johnson.

 

I'm convinced that a Minny loss to any foe worse than them will knock them out. However, Minny has some incredibly easy games and will end up making it at least close.

Because the the scouting report coming out of college was that he wasn't physically big enough and he wasn't that mobile.  It said that he would get injured very quickly in the NFL.

 

 

Grossman, IIRC, didn't miss a game during his whole college or high school career.

 

Yet, the scouting report said he would get injured very quickly?  Please, come up with a new schtick, because you're not bringing a whole lot right now...

Hmm . . . kinda interesting because I happen to be reading Grossman's '03 NFL Draft scouting report right now. Shockingy, there's no mention of him being prone to injury.

Rex Grossman

 

ANALYSIS

Positives: Has solid, compact muscle development with broad shoulders, big hands and adequate leg definition … Shows smoothness in his pass drop, taking short, quick strides … Gets rid of the ball on time with a quick release, displaying good velocity on his long tosses … Keeps his poise standing in the pocket and quickly comes back after the sack … Throws on time with touch, anticipating the receiver's moves and coverage … Hits his targets in stride, reads the field quickly and rarely hesitates to throw long … Very good at locating his secondary targets … Throws the long ball with an arc to gain distance and is seldom late in getting the ball to his target.

Negatives: Needs better judgment, as he tends to throw the ball to dangerous spots in the zone, risking the costly interception … Carries the ball a little low, which causes his delivery to slow down at times … Feels pressure and slides his feet well to avoid, but his mobility is only marginal … Lacks a short touch, putting too much on his throws … Has trouble following through with his release when flushed out of the pocket … Lacks the burst needed to escape the pocket.[/b]

Hmm . . . kinda interesting because I happen to be reading Grossman's '03 NFL Draft scouting report right now. Shockingy, there's no mention of him being prone to injury.

Rex Grossman

 

ANALYSIS

Positives: Has solid, compact muscle development with broad shoulders, big hands and adequate leg definition … Shows smoothness in his pass drop, taking short, quick strides … Gets rid of the ball on time with a quick release, displaying good velocity on his long tosses … Keeps his poise standing in the pocket and quickly comes back after the sack … Throws on time with touch, anticipating the receiver's moves and coverage … Hits his targets in stride, reads the field quickly and rarely hesitates to throw long … Very good at locating his secondary targets … Throws the long ball with an arc to gain distance and is seldom late in getting the ball to his target.

Negatives: Needs better judgment, as he tends to throw the ball to dangerous spots in the zone, risking the costly interception … Carries the ball a little low, which causes his delivery to slow down at times … Feels pressure and slides his feet well to avoid, but his mobility is only marginal … Lacks a short touch, putting too much on his throws … Has trouble following through with his release when flushed out of the pocket … Lacks the burst needed to escape the pocket.[/b]

SHOCKING!

 

I mean come on, the guy was a great college QB but until he is 100% healthy, we will never know his true Pro abilites and quite frankly (hate to use the term) Grossman will not get a shot with the Bears this season unless Orton (god forbid) goes down. As far as I am concerned, the job is Orton's for good. Unless Orton completely blows the next few weeks and Grossman is amazing in practices, then Orton is your Qb the entire season. Honestly, I think Grossmans days in Chicago might be numbered. As a pro, he is injury prone and it is very unfortunate to say so.

great point...now what's so special about Orton?

 

He can start several games in a row and not be totally horrible.

SHOCKING!

Unless Orton completely blows the next few weeks

After his performance against New Orleans, and games coming up against the defences of Carolina, Atlanta and Tampa Bay, don't you think this is actually possible? Especially with only 1 good WR target in Muhammed.

After his performance against New Orleans, and games coming up against the defences of Carolina, Atlanta and Tampa Bay, don't you think this is actually possible? Especially with only 1 good WR target in Muhammed.

 

The funny thing is he has been completely blowing the whole season lol.... well except for that 1st Detroit game he actually was efficient and made smart throws. Us Bear fans are just so used to crappiness we are settling for Orton. I dont think people realize how much better we could be with Grossman back there. And since he is a rookie watching the games will do nothing but help Orton anyways so if Grossman gets injured I think we will see a better Orton return(better than he is currently that is not better than Grossman).

 

It would give Orton more time to just work on his mechanics and not worry 2 much about the upcoming game. And hopefully than if he has to come back his long ball will be more accurate.

I am probably the biggest Rex Grossman fan in the world, i went into a depression after his latest injury and only a sox world series championship (feels good to say that s***) could have brought me out of it.

 

That being said, you cannot put Rex in until Orton and the Bears start losing, while this proposition may sound silly... i just think its how professional sports work. Orton is the QB of a 5-3 team and has only cost the bears 1 game in all reality.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that at this point Rex is by far a better QB than Orton, his deep ball is as accurate as i've seen a bears quarterback ever throw (not saying much) and this offense would benefit from Rex being behind center dropping bombs to muhammad. All things being considered, Rex has some bad luck but that isn't Kyle Orton's fault and he has led the team to a 5-3 record.... the bottom line.

 

Should Orton keep the job going into camp next year, i gaurantee Rex will beat him out because when it comes to talent there is a gap between the two.

 

just my .02