The Count possibly to the Astros?

[SSH2005]

The other problem is if he were to bat ninth or second, he would be back to back with Pods. That's 2 guys back to back that are going to have a tough time driving in a run from third with less than two out. And before I get jumped on by people saying it wouldn't be his job to drive in runs, Iguchi drove home a lot from the 2 hole. Uribe and Crede drove home their fair share from the 9 hole. Having 2 guys in your line-up in the AL who would be hard pressed to drive home 35 runs a piece is not good.

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[Felix]

The other problem is if he were to bat ninth or second, he would be back to back with Pods. That's 2 guys back to back that are going to have a tough time driving in a run from third with less than two out. And before I get jumped on by people saying it wouldn't be his job to drive in runs, Iguchi drove home a lot from the 2 hole. Uribe and Crede drove home their fair share from the 9 hole. Having 2 guys in your line-up in the AL who would be hard pressed to drive home 35 runs a piece is not good.

But come on! They'd steal a lot of bases!

[GoodAsGould]

Most players on the fast-track to the majors don't even go to AAA.  Triple A is where most of the career minor-leaguers go.

 

Thats not true at all.... they dont spend a whole season at AAA all the time but most prospects do spend sometime in AAA unless their majorleague team is really bad than they could just go straight to the majors.

 

A course their are players who go straight from AA like Jenks and Cabrera but those are usually prospects who are more than ready for the big leagues already and isnt the norm.

[Chisoxfn]

The other problem is if he were to bat ninth or second, he would be back to back with Pods. That's 2 guys back to back that are going to have a tough time driving in a run from third with less than two out. And before I get jumped on by people saying it wouldn't be his job to drive in runs, Iguchi drove home a lot from the 2 hole. Uribe and Crede drove home their fair share from the 9 hole. Having 2 guys in your line-up in the AL who would be hard pressed to drive home 35 runs a piece is not good.

I've defended Taveras on this thread, but I'm not a proponent of this thread for the exact reasons you state. Personally I'm not a fan of the move because over the long haul I think Anderson is the better player. However, next year Taveras will be the better player and Taveras will be a good player in this league, imo.

 

I also like the idea of moving Iguchi down in the lineup but at the same time my guess is that he eventually is back into the 2 spot because Uribe is too much of a free swinger to stay near the top (however I hope I'm wrong because I like Uribe's power and ability to make contact from the 2 spot; plus he'll see a lot of fastballs and I think he'll hit 20 Hr's next year). Uribe did make a lot of strides on his patience and he even started staying back on the ball better (which was why he started to take off late in the season).

[Chisoxfn]

Thats not true at all.... they dont spend a whole season at AAA all the time but most prospects do spend sometime in AAA unless their majorleague team is really bad than they could just go straight to the majors.

 

A course their are players who go straight from AA like Jenks and Cabrera but those are usually prospects who are more than ready for the big leagues already and isnt the norm.

Nah, you can interchange them. Typically you'll see most really good prospects spend most of there time in AA. If they are more raw they'll see an extended time in AAA but if they are really talented they hit AA for the extende time, maybe get a few starts in AAA and than make the jump.

 

However, if your not as talented or if your blocked by a very good player at the major league level (or are more raw) you'll see yourself spend an extended time in AAA.

 

You are correct though, your more likely to spend more time in AAA if your on a good team and at the same time bad teams are more likely to rush guys and will ocassionally promote someone from A ball (hell, didn't Willis pretty much come straight from A ball for the fish). And Jeremy Bonderman was basically the same case for the Tigers.

 

Look at the Sox. A to AA is the biggest jump in the minors. If you see a guy suceed in AA they'll likely suceed in AAA and the next big question is whether they'll suceed at the major league level.

[beck72]

FWIW, here is BA's 2004 report on Taveras from their Prospect Handbook---

 

#11-Houston

"Taveras is a potential leadoff hitter whose line drive approach and control of the strike zone suit him well for the role. He has to get stronger to keep pitchers honest, but power never will be a big part of his game. Taveras' best tool is his speed, which made a huge impression on Carolina League managers in 2003. They rated him the fastest baserunner, best baserunner and best defensive outfielder in the league. Not only can he fly, but he also has basestealing aptitude, succeeding on 57 of his 69 attempts last year. Taveras can cover more ground than any outfielder in the organization, including the majors, and he has a solid arm. He really need to be playing everyday in Double A at this stage of his career, so if Houston holds onto Taveras, it will come at the expense of stunting his development."

[Guest JimH]

FWIW, here is BA's 2004 report on Taveras from their Prospect Handbook---

 

#11-Houston

"Taveras is a potential leadoff hitter whose line drive approach and control of the strike zone suit him well for the role. He has to get stronger to keep pitchers honest, but power never will be a big part of his game. Taveras' best tool is his speed, which made a huge impression on Carolina League managers in 2003. They rated him the fastest baserunner, best baserunner and best defensive outfielder in the league. Not only can he fly, but he also has basestealing aptitude, succeeding on 57 of his 69 attempts last year. Taveras can cover more ground than any outfielder in the organization, including the majors, and he has a solid arm. He really need to be playing everyday in Double A at this stage of his career, so if Houston holds onto Taveras, it will come at the expense of stunting his development."

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Well thank you beck72 but you know the story, BA is only right when it's evaluating Brian Anderson, .

 

I am just kidding guys, I hope Anderson is the real deal. However, I have seen him play, he does not overly impress me and I have seen Tavares play and I think he is a good player, the type Guillen likes. I guess the splits and stats and the number crunching and the hunches don't bear me out so we will just have to see what happens here.

 

Point being ... I don't think all these rumors are totally made up. The White Sox like Anderson but if they think someone is better they will explore it.

[beck72]

Point being ... I don't think all these rumors are totally made up.  The White Sox like Anderson but if they think someone is  better they will explore it.

 

Some Hou. fans think Burke would be able to move to CF if Taveras was traded. Don't know what they'd do for 2b but who cares. These rumors don't seem all that far fetched

[CWSGuy406]

You are correct.  If stats meant everything, Billy Beane would've won multiple WS titles by now.  Beane is a stathead, who relies more on crunching numbers through spreadsheets than listening to scouts who actually watch the players play.  By his logic, Derek Jeter is overpaid by at least $10 million/year because his OPS isn't as high as Tejada's or A-Rod's.  Nevermind the fact that that Jeter is a stellar defensive SS and one of the best clutch players in MLB.

 

He is?

 

In fact, Jeter made an incredible throw in the playoffs that kept Beane's team out of the WS four years ago.

 

And your point is?

[SSH2005]

Nevermind the fact that that Jeter is a stellar defensive SS

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[Felix]

You are correct.  If stats meant everything, Billy Beane would've won multiple WS titles by now.  Beane is a stathead, who relies more on crunching numbers through spreadsheets than listening to scouts who actually watch the players play.  By his logic, Derek Jeter is overpaid by at least $10 million/year because his OPS isn't as high as Tejada's or A-Rod's.  Nevermind the fact that that Jeter is a stellar defensive SS and one of the best clutch players in MLB.  In fact, Jeter made an incredible throw in the playoffs that kept Beane's team out of the WS four years ago.

Using your own words (although its not two sentences):

Those two sentences show that you're completely clueless.

[sayitaintso]

In fact, Jeter made an incredible throw in the playoffs that kept Beane's team out of the WS four years ago.

 

I wouldn't consider it as a throw, it was more of a flip.

[Chisoxfn]

Jeter is an average at best defensive shortstop and I'd like to say he's a poor defensive shortstop. I'll give him credit for being a headsy player with some intangibles but he's vastly over-rated and vastly overpaid.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 07:21 PM)

Wow, Taveras must be a hell of a hitter at home then.  How about this:  Taveras plays the home games and Anderson plays the road games. 

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How many games are theSox playing at Minute Maid Park next year?

 

I just want to clear something up from another thread. I'm not totally against the idea of getting Taveras, but to bash BA based on 34 AB's, call Willy a "proven .291 hitter" when he did it once, and trading Jose Contreras to get him are all f***ing ridiculous ideas.

[sayitaintso]

How many games are theSox playing at Minute Maid Park next year?

 

I  just want to clear something up from another thread.  I'm not totally against the idea of getting Taveras, but to bash BA based on 34 AB's, call Willy a "proven .291 hitter" when he did it once, and trading Jose Contreras to get him are all f***ing ridiculous ideas.

To answer your question, it is none i believe unless there is another World Series matchup.

[beck72]

It's starting to make more sense why Houston would trade Taveras. They want more power, and the Of is the best place for it. They're looking at adding Preston Wilson or Burnitz [who supposedly didn't sign with the O's], and supposedly are pretty close. Looking at the Astros stats, Adam Everett, chris Burke, Brad Ausmus and Taveras has SLG % under .368. With three light hitters, keeping a 4th puts a lot of pressure on the offense in the NL.

 

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3559670.html

 

The sox though are a team that can add another light hitter. Of all the sox regulars, only Pods had a SLG % under .400. Rowand was the next lowest, then Uribe [.412] and AJ [like .418]. Neither Juan or AJ would be considered "light hitters" like Pods or Taveras. And both should likely improve rather than decrease their SLG [AJ had a drop off in 2b's, while he increased his HR's-his career SLG is .434]

Edited January 2, 2006 by beck72

[beck72]

I  just want to clear something up from another thread.  I'm not totally against the idea of getting Taveras, but to bash BA based on 34 AB's, call Willy a "proven .291 hitter" when he did it once, and trading Jose Contreras to get him are all f***ing ridiculous ideas.

I don't know anyone who has said that they'd trade Taveras straight up for Jose. I think the sox could expect another player or two. The value is much like in the Rowand, Gio and Haigwood deal for Thome. In this case Jose is the most valuable player and players other than Taveras would have to be added to make the deal even.

[WCSox]

He is?

 

So, you're saying that Jeter isn't a good defensive SS? Do you even watch baseball??

[WCSox]

How many games are theSox playing at Minute Maid Park next year?

 

Tell me exactly how Minute Maid Park is such an asset hitters who have no power to LF?

 

I  just want to clear something up from another thread.  I'm not totally against the idea of getting Taveras, but to bash BA based on 34 AB's, call Willy a "proven .291 hitter" when he did it once, and trading Jose Contreras to get him are all f***ing ridiculous ideas.

 

I never advocated trading Contreras for Taveras straight-up, smarty-pants.

 

And, by definition, Taveras is a "proven .291 hitter." He did it over the course of a full season, didn't he? I'm not saying that he'll definitely do it again, but he certainly did "prove" that he can do it. Sorry, but you're dead wrong on that one, buddy. On the other hand, Anderson hasn't "proven" anything, other than that he's able to hit .176 in 34 at-bats. I expect Anderson to be the better player over the long run, but he may put up a Crede-like OBP next year.

 

Oh, and your use of the word "f***" makes you sound really intelligent and goes a long way towards strengthening your argument. :headshake

Edited January 2, 2006 by WCSox

[WCSox]

You keep saying that Taveras could hit 9th where Anderson would be hitting.  But because of his speed and bunting ability he would bat second in Ozzie's world, regardless of what you say.  And his low OBP would hurt there.

 

And you know this because Ozzie told you so? :rolly

 

There's no reason that Taveras couldn't hit 9th.

[Kyyle23]

So, you're saying that Jeter isn't a good defensive SS?    Do you even watch baseball??

 

I will say he isnt as great as he is made out to be. He gets the job done and gets too much airtime when he makes a good play. I appreciate his bat a hell of alot more than I appreciate his glove.

 

And yes, I do watch baseball. Just like everyone else here.

[Felix]

So, you're saying that Jeter isn't a good defensive SS?    Do you even watch baseball??

Those two sentences show that you're completely clueless.

[WCSox]

I will say he isnt as great as he is made out to be.   He gets the job done and gets too much airtime when he makes a good play.

 

I agree that he's overrated, just like everyone else in the eye of the NY media. That doesn't mean that he's not a great defensive player, though. He's at least as good as Uribe (I'd argue a little better) with a much better bat and more clutch plays in the post-season.

Edited January 2, 2006 by WCSox

[WCSox]

Using your own words (although its not two sentences):

 

You're mastery of the English language is very impressive.

[kapkomet]

I agree that he's overrated, just like everyone else in the eye of the NY media.  That doesn't mean that he's not a great defensive player, though.  He's at least as good as Uribe (I'd argue a little better) with a much better bat and more clutch plays in the post-season.

Looks like I've missed some fun while I was away.

 

WCSox, Oregon? And, I'll add, where did you get so smart to be able to talk down to everyone?

 

Just checking.