The Count possibly to the Astros?

[beck72]

The rumor says the Sox are willing to go to $105 million on payroll, and says trading Contreras frees up money for deadline reinforcements. If the payroll currently is at $95 million and they are willing to go $10 million higher, how much money needs to be freed up for deadline reinforcements when more than half of their salaries for 2006 would have already been paid out?

 

I think the sox would be willing to go up to the $105 mill figure [say adding Tejeda w/o subtracting Jose], if it would help the sox repeat. But I also think subtracting Jose could be done, if it also helped the sox chances for repeating [say getting a stud set up guy like Chad qualls, along with a SP prospect who could conceivably help the sox this yr]

 

But you're right, the sox wouldn't need to subtract anyone right now, if they were going to add a player or two at the deadline

[beck72]

The astros and the sox high A teams are very familiar with each other, having played 21 games this past yr. W/S won 13 of the 21. Troy Patton lost the 2 games he pitched against them.

[Felix]

Brian Anderson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Willy Taveras

 

This proposed deal would make no sense to me.

[Dick Allen]

Brian Anderson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Willy Taveras

 

This proposed deal would make no sense to me.

Exactly. That's not the type of trade that KW would consider "overwhelming". At least I hope not.

[daa84]

Brian Anderson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Willy Taveras

 

This proposed deal would make no sense to me.

i dont understand it completely either, but the only sense i can make of it is this...

 

Dye is only signed through the end of this year. I believe Podsedniks contract is up soon as well. Anderson may have to shift to right if dye leaves. Sweeney certainly probably wont be ready for another 2 years, and at this point owens is certainly not a guarantee, neither is anderson for that matter. Tavaras is a proven OFer and he would help ease concerns if some of the current OFers leave via free agency.

[qwerty]

i dont understand it completely either, but the only sense i can make of it is this...

 

Dye is only signed through the end of this year. I believe Podsedniks contract is up soon as well. Anderson may have to shift to right if dye leaves. Sweeney certainly probably wont be ready for another 2 years, and at this point owens is certainly not a guarantee, neither is anderson for that matter. Tavaras is a proven OFer and he would help ease concerns if some of the current OFers leave via free agency.

 

Dye's option is very affordable for 2007 and podsednik won't be a free agent for three years. So there goes that idea...

 

Taveras is a scrub as far as i am concerned and i would hate to have him on the white sox.

[WCSox]

Keep Jose. If neccessesary ship him at the deadline if we absolutely need to fill a hole on our team. I'm pretty sure thats what Kenny has in mind.

 

Yep. Taveras and Qualls for Contreras would be a fair deal for most teams, but probably isn't a good idea for one that is the favorite to repeat as champs and has already has a promising young CF.

 

Kenny should stand pat for now. There's no need to trade Jose if we don't have a hold to fill elsewhere.

[beck72]

Houston picked Taveras up via rule 5 draft a few yrs back from Clev. Not exactly worth a #1 SP.

 

My guess is this would be Houston's first offer. And the sox would counter with a more realistic albiet higher than Houston would accept.

[WCSox]

Taveras is a scrub as far as i am concerned and i would hate to have him on the white sox.

 

Taveras his something like .290 and stole over 30 bases last year... and plays a very solid CF. That's pretty far from a "scrub."

[SkokieSox]

I realize I am in the minority in regards to Tavarez, but he absolutely raked in the playoffs. He definitely needs to walk more, but that can come. I think he would do well under Ozzie.

[qwerty]

Taveras his something like .290 and stole over 30 bases last year... and plays a very solid CF.  That's pretty far from a "scrub."

 

13 doubles in over 600 plate appearances? Virtually no eye ball? He had a .325 obp while hitting .291... this is quite a feat. He is not believed to be one to grow into power so that will always hinder him. I wouldn't care about his lack off power (13 f***ing doubles c'mon)... if he had a godly obp. He is best suited for a fourth outfielder.

[WCSox]

13 doubles in over 600 plate appearances? Virtually no eye ball? He had a .325 obp while hitting .291... this is quite a feat. He is not believed to be one to grow into power so that will always hinder him. I wouldn't care about his lack off power (13 f***ing doubles c'mon)... if he had a godly obp. He is best suited for a fourth outfielder.

 

2005 OBP...

 

Podsednik: .351

Tad: .342

Rowand: .329

Uribe: .301

Everett: .311

A.J.: .308

 

Juan Pierre: .326 OBP, .276 BA, 19 2B, 2 HR

 

Considering the generally poor OBP of Sox players last season and the fact that Rowand's measley 16 stolen bases ranked #2 on the team, he'd be a decent #9 hitter at the very least and, given that his OBP wasn't much lower than Tad's, he'd be a viable #2. Juan Pierre doesn't hit for power either and Taveras' numbers are already comparable to his. And I'd take Pierre as my #2 hitter any day. With Taveras entering his second full year in the league, he's bound to get even better. Again, it's pretty short-sighted to call Taveras a "scrub."

Edited December 31, 2005 by WCSox

[Dick Allen]

2005 OBP...

 

Podsednik: .351

Tad: .342

Rowand: .329

Uribe: .301

Everett: .311

A.J.: .308

 

Juan Pierre: .326 OBP, .276 BA, 19 2B, 2 HR

 

Considering the generally poor OBP of Sox players last season and the fact that Rowand's measley 16 stolen bases ranked #2 on the team, he'd be a decent #9 hitter at the very least and, given that his OBP wasn't much lower than Tad's, he'd be a viable #2.  Juan Pierre doesn't hit for power either and Taveras' numbers are already comparable to his.  And I'd take Pierre as my #2 hitter any day.  With Taveras entering his second full year in the league, he's bound to get even better.  Again, it's pretty short-sighted to call Taveras a "scrub."

 

You do realize Contreras was virtually unbeatable after the All Star break? Why would you trade a #1 pitcher for a guy who even you said would bat ninth? Taveras is not an upgrade over Anderson. You compare him to Pierre, who by all accounts had a bad year last year. KW wouldn't trade Contreras for Pierre, neither would any GM in baseball.

[Kenkait Sox Fan]

Taveras would not be an upgrade for the Sox. To trade Contreras would need Qualls and 2 top pitching prospects.

[WCSox]

You do realize Contreras was virtually unbeatable after the All Star break? Why would you trade a #1 pitcher for a guy who even you said would bat ninth?

 

I wouldn't. I'm just saying that Taveras is not a "scrub."

 

Taveras is not an upgrade over Anderson.

 

Oh, what has Anderson done in the pros? Besides that .176 BA/OBP in 13 games? :rolly

[qwerty]

2005 OBP...

 

Podsednik: .351

Tad: .342

Rowand: .329

Uribe: .301

Everett: .311

A.J.: .308

 

Juan Pierre: .326 OBP, .276 BA, 19 2B, 2 HR

 

Considering the generally poor OBP of Sox players last season and the fact that Rowand's measley 16 stolen bases ranked #2 on the team, he'd be a decent #9 hitter at the very least and, given that his OBP wasn't much lower than Tad's, he'd be a viable #2.  Juan Pierre doesn't hit for power either and Taveras' numbers are already comparable to his.  And I'd take Pierre as my #2 hitter any day.  With Taveras entering his second full year in the league, he's bound to get even better.  Again, it's pretty short-sighted to call Taveras a "scrub."

 

So by comparing him to how weak the sox were in the on base category helps you how...? Alright. Yesss stolen bases... i will not talk about them because everyone knows how i feel about them. I am also sick of how every makes out iguchi to be the best two hole hitter ever. He does exactly what most two hitters around the the league do. They give themselves up to get the lead-off man in scoring position ( i do not necessarily like it early on in games... first few innings) and then swing away if the lead-off man is already in scoring position. He truly did nothing out of the ordinary.

 

Juan pierre's worst season and he still out produced taveras. Just to make it easy pierre's ops+ was 84 while taveras's was 77. I would also beg to differ that taveras goes in a sophmore slump this upcoming season rather than improve.

 

Only thing he has going for him is his defense. Taveras is overated by houston fans... like i said, he is realistically a fourth outfielder/defensive replacement.

Edited December 31, 2005 by qwerty

[Felix]

For those of you who think that Taveras isn't a scrub, take a look at his numbers outside of the juice box.

298 AB

.252 average

.282 OBP

.289 SLG

11 SB, 6 CS

8 XBH

[elrockinMT]

Tavera straight up for Jose C is crazy. But, that's what most rumors are anyway-crazy stuff thrown out there. KW has shown this off season that he gets a lot in return for who he trades and there is no reason to doubt he will get alot in return if he trades Jose, Brandon or anyone else. The original rumor almost maes one think the Sox are desperate to trade. The truth is we have a great line up, probably better than last years, but still can imrove, but don't abslutely need to. Contreras isn't going anywhere if it ain't a huge trade. I still think Tejada might be the target.

[WCSox]

I would also beg to differ that taveras goes in a sophmore slump this upcoming season rather than improve.

 

Based on what? Your own bias against him? :rolly

 

Only thing he has going for him is his defense. Taveras is overated by houston fans... like i said, he is realistically a fourth outfielder/defensive replacement.

 

At the very least, he's a better option than Anderson at this point, who has done absolutely nothing in the majors and could be the CF incarnation of Mike Caruso for all we know.

 

Of course, there's no way that Taveras (or Pierre) alone is worth Contreras in a trade. Nobody will try to argue that. But if Contreras reverts back to his mediocre Yankees numbers and Anderson turns out to be a flop, I would seriously consider a trade for Taveras and Qualls.

 

Whatever happens, it's important for KW to wait until June or July before making another move. Trading Contreras right now would be stupid, as his value is as high as it'll ever be.

[Kenkait Sox Fan]

I agree with waiting until June/July to possibly trade Contreras to see if the Sox have needs. The Sox need to just make minor moves to shore up spots 23 - 25 on the roster for now.

[Felix]

At the very least, he's a better option than Anderson at this point, who has done absolutely nothing in the majors and could be the CF incarnation of Mike Caruso for all we know.

What has Taveras done in the majors? He had 20 extra base hits last year, while playing in one of the best hitting parks. He is far from being better than Anderson, even if Anderson is a bust. Again, look at Taveras' numbers outside of Minute Maid Park. He couldn't do anything at all.

[santo=dorf]

Why people keep wasting their time on a site that suggested Mark Buehrle to the Cardinals is something I'll never understand.

 

THAT SITE IS BOGUS!!!!!

[qwerty]

Based on what?  Your own bias against him?  :rolly

At the very least, he's a better option than Anderson at this point, who has done absolutely nothing in the majors and could be the CF incarnation of Mike Caruso for all we know.

 

Of course, there's no way that Taveras (or Pierre) alone is worth Contreras in a trade.  Nobody will try to argue that.  But if Contreras reverts back to his mediocre Yankees numbers and Anderson turns out to be a flop, I would seriously consider a trade for Taveras and Qualls.

 

Whatever happens, it's important for KW to wait until June or July before making another move.  Trading Contreras right now would be stupid, as his value is as high as it'll ever be.

 

Based on the fact he seems like a perfect player to regress. I said the same thing about gerut before last season and ford. I have also the same thing about francoeur... i am positive he will have a sharp regression.

 

He is a better option based on anderson's short time up in the majors? You are thinking he is gonna be a flop based on 34 at-bats? I don't like him much offensively either and i think he will struggle to have a .300 obp next year. His swing is disgusting... it's like he tries to hit everything into the ground.

 

I really don't understand how you say we should wait to trade contreras even though his trade value is as high as it will ever get...?

[WCSox]

What has Taveras done in the majors?  He had 20 extra base hits last year, while playing in one of the best hitting parks.  Again, look at Taveras' numbers outside of Minute Maid Park.  He couldn't do anything at all.

 

Outside of Minute Maid Park, he's done a hell of a lot more than Anderson. Look up Anderson's numbers. Do you think that his .176 BA/OBP are impressive or something?

 

He is far from being better than Anderson, even if Anderson is a bust.

 

That's quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

 

Overall, Taveras did relatively well given that it was his first full season. If I had a choice between him and Anderson, I'd take Taveras in a heartbeat.

[WCSox]

Based on the fact he seems like a perfect player to regress. I said the same thing about gerut before last season and ford. I have also the same thing about francoeur... i am positive he will have a sharp regression.

 

In other words, it's just speculation on your part. Tell me, what criteria do you use to determine that a player "seems" like he's going to regress?

 

He is a better option based on anderson's short time up in the majors? You are thinking he is gonna be a flop based on 34 at-bats?

 

No. Taveras has proven that he can play at the major league level. Anderson, through no fault of his own, has not. And what little we've seen of Anderson doesn't exactly suggest that he's the second coming of Griffey.

 

I really don't understand how you say we should wait to trade contreras even though his trade value is as high as it will ever get...?

 

Doh! I think what I was trying to say is that the time to trade Contreras would be now, but there's no reason to deal him now when there are no gaping holes elsewhere on the team. The best course of action would be to wait until June or July. Sorry about that.