Felix Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Last year, in 34 ABs, Anderson had 2 HR (both hit in Safeco). Last year, in 592 ABs, Taveras had 3. Last year, in 34 ABs, Anderson had 3 XBH. Last year, in 592 ABs, Taveras had 20. If Anderson had 592, and stayed on that pace, which you seem to think since you keep mentioning his AVG and OBP, he'd have 52 XBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 10:55 AM) Last year, in 34 ABs, Anderson had 2 HR (both hit in Safeco). Last year, in 592 ABs, Taveras had 3. Last year, in 34 ABs, Anderson had 3 XBH. Last year, in 592 ABs, Taveras had 20. If Anderson had 592, and stayed on that pace, which you seem to think since you keep mentioning his AVG and OBP, he'd have 52 XBH. Power doesn't mean anything when your BA or OBP are below .200. Juan Pierre doesnt hit for power, and he's a very valuable CF. Again, Taveras has already proven that he's good enough to play CF at the major league level. Anderson hasn't proven anything yet. If I'm going for another WS ring, I take the guy who's done it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 12:59 PM) Power doesn't mean anything when your BA or OBP are below .200. Juan Pierre doesnt hit for power, and he's a very valuable CF. Juan Pierre isn't a valuable CF. He's a bad CF. There is a big difference. And if you are so high and mighty on how Taveras is going to have a jump next year, then why not Anderson? You seem sold on his AVG and OBP being below .200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 11:01 AM) Juan Pierre isn't a valuable CF. He's a bad CF. Those two sentences show that you're completely clueless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Taking a step back here I find it fascinating the White Sox are always linked with these speedy high batting average CF guys who steal bases. This winter we heard rumors about Gathright, Juan Pierre, and now Willy Tavares. Now no one really knows if there was legit interest in these guys or if it's simply media rumors, but to me it's not coincidence, especially after they landed Podsednik last year. Simply put, Guillen appears to covet this type of player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 06:07 PM) Those two sentences show that you're completely clueless. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Juan Pierre is definitely not a good CF'er. His offensive output does not make him a good CF'er. His horrible arm and not so great range make him a bad CF'er. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 (edited) Do you just think Taveras is good because he hit well against us in the World Series? He's really not that good. I wouldn't be surprised to see Jerry Owens put up better offensive numbers than Taveras. Of course, Owens wouldn't play good defense in center field like Taveras. That is Taveras's main asset. The only way this trade would make some sense is if it was Contreras for Taveras and guys like Chad Qualls and Troy Patton. Taveras couldn't be the main guy in the trade. Taking a step back here I find it fascinating the White Sox are always linked with these speedy high batting average CF guys who steal bases. This winter we heard rumors about Gathright, Juan Pierre, and now Willy Tavares. Now no one really knows if there was legit interest in these guys or if it's simply media rumors, but to me it's not coincidence, especially after they landed Podsednik last year. Simply put, Guillen appears to covet this type of player. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, Pierre normally puts up a high OBP as well unlike Gathright and Taveras. Pierre will probably have a bounceback season in 2006 and put up a high OBP again in his contract year. But I definately see the trend you mentioned as well. Edited December 31, 2005 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 12:19 PM) Taking a step back here I find it fascinating the White Sox are always linked with these speedy high batting average CF guys who steal bases. This winter we heard rumors about Gathright, Juan Pierre, and now Willy Tavares. Now no one really knows if there was legit interest in these guys or if it's simply media rumors, but to me it's not coincidence, especially after they landed Podsednik last year. Simply put, Guillen appears to covet this type of player. I don't know about Gathright, but KW did say he never called the Marlins about Pierre. I think its a lot of speculation. Guillen did say he wanted to add more speed. That hasn't happen. If Contreras is the bait, they should do a lot better than Taveras, who like was stated above, really is no more than a 4th outfielder, pinch runner, defensive replacement. He got some hits in the world series, but really isn't very impressive as a player. Considering KW has made pitching a priority, and emphasises it as much as possible, unless its for a player like Tejada, I really doubt he'll trade any of his 6 starters without getting pitching back. I'm not sold on Contreras and Uribe for Tejada, although Tejada obviously would be huge in the Sox line-up, but it would make the White Sox media darlings, and every expert would make them the favorites to win it all again. The days of the White Sox being ignored on ESPN would be over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 11:27 AM) His horrible arm and not so great range make him a bad CF'er. His arm is average for a CF. His range is average-to-above-average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayitaintso Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 12:27 PM) Juan Pierre is definitely not a good CF'er. His offensive output does not make him a good CF'er. His horrible arm and not so great range make him a bad CF'er. I think he has a better arm than Damon does. But i haven't really watched Pierre play so i don't know for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 12:34 PM) His arm is average for a CF. His range is average-to-above-average. His arm is about as average as Lance "one dog" Johnson's was. NL third base coaches dislocate their shoulders waving in runners on base hits to CF when Pierre is patrolling it. He throws fly balls to home plate. Edited December 31, 2005 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 01:36 PM) I think he has a better arm than Damon does. But i haven't really watched Pierre play so i don't know for sure. Thats like saying you are a better defensive catcher than Piazza.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Hey AndytheClown, on mlbrumors.com they said their source said the White Sox could go to a $105 million payroll. You think you might be their source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayitaintso Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 12:39 PM) Thats like saying you are a better defensive catcher than Piazza.. But i never said i was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(Felix @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 11:39 AM) Thats like saying you are a better defensive catcher than Piazza.. Not having a cannon for an arm doesn't make one a "bad CF." Pierre has more than enough range to play the position competently. He also has the OBP and speed on the bases to make him a valuable player. I'd take Pierre in a second over Rowand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 12:50 PM) Look up Anderson's numbers. Do you think that his .176 BA/OBP are impressive or something? Warning, small sample sizes ahead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Another thing about Taveras... If the defense plays their corner infielders up against Taveras, they can take away most of his offense from him -- bunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 WCSox, judging Anderson by so few at bats is silly. Using your logic the White Sox should have replaced Robin Ventura after 1989 when he hit .178 with no homers in 45 at bats. Anderson has talent. Its anyone's guess how he will do in 2006, but if he can't do the job, KW will find a better replacement than Willy Taveras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 TaverasTalk.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 11:46 AM) WCSox, judging Anderson by so few at bats is silly. Not nearly as silly as automatically assuming that he'll be a better player in '06 than Taveras was this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 TaverasTalk.com <{POST_SNAPBACK}> :puke At least Eric Chavez is actually good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 12:48 PM) Not nearly as silly as automatically assuming that he'll be a better player in '06 than Taveras was this year. I don't think anyone's automatically assuming. You are automatically assuming Taveras will be better in 2006 than he was in 2005, and you're automatically assuming he will outperform Anderson by so much its worth trading a #1 pitcher for him. That's not silly, its insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 I'm not so sure that Brian Anderson will be able to put up a .666 OPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 11:52 AM) I don't think anyone's automatically assuming. Actually, one person here is. Read back through this thread. You are automatically assuming Taveras will be better in 2006 than he was in 2005, I'm not assuming that he'll be substantially better in '06. That might not happen until '07 or '08. Interestingly, at least one other person here is convinced that he'll fall into some sort of "sophomore slump." and you're automatically assuming he will outperform Anderson by so much its worth trading a #1 pitcher for him. That's not silly, its insane. Show me where I advocated Taveras-for-Contreras straight up. :rolly Edited December 31, 2005 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 12:34 PM) His arm is average for a CF. His range is average-to-above-average. Haha... he he has one of the worst arms in all of baseball. So many defensive statistics show how bad he truely is ( i am not saying just range factor and the basics). But you can go ahead believing what you like. Since he has be in the majors more runners have advanced on his than any other outfielder in the majors. Edited December 31, 2005 by qwerty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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