The Count possibly to the Astros?

[SSH2005]

Haha... he he has one of the worst arms in all of baseball. So many defensive statistics show how bad he truely is ( i am not saying just range factor and the basics). But you can go ahead believing what you like.

 

Since he has be in the majors more runners have advanced on his than any other outfielder int he majors.

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Pierre has a massively limp noodle arm. I thought everyone knew this?

[WCSox]

Haha... he he has one of the worst arms in all of baseball. So many defensive statistics show how bad he truely is ( i am not saying just range factor and the basics). But you can go ahead believing what you like.

 

Since he has be in the majors more runners have advanced on his than any other outfielder int he majors.

 

He also plays in one of the largest outfields in the majors (.434 to left-center). But you can go ahead and ignore that important piece of information.

 

Even CFs with really weak arms (Damon) can still play the position effectively.

[SSH2005]

He also plays in one of the largest outfields in the majors (.434 to left-center).  But you can go ahead and ignore that important piece of information.

 

Even CFs with really weak arms (Damon) can still play the position effectively.

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First, you said that Pierre's arm was "average." Now, you are inferring that he actually has a "really weak arm." Which is it? You seem to be backtracking.

[qwerty]

He also plays in one of the largest outfields in the majors (.434 to left-center).  But you can go ahead and ignore that important piece of information.

 

Even CFs with really weak arms (Damon) can still play the position effectively.

 

You are seriously suggesting that pierre and damon are good fielders, i am not talking arms ( even though throwing abilty is a big part)? Alrighty then. I can already see the type of players you are a fan of.

Edited December 31, 2005 by qwerty

[southsideirish71]

If the WhiteSox are so amped up on having a speedy guy in CF, just use Owens. Why waste the Count trade on Taveras.

 

Anderson is ready for the majors. He is a KW type guy. If we were so balls to the wall on getting another speed guy, we would of traded for Pierre. He was on the block a month ago. Anderson has a nice glove and a nice arm. He gives us a potential upgrade over Rowand from the bat standpoint and not much of a dropoff if any in the field.

 

Sweeney will be in RF, Anderson will be in CF, and Owens will be in LF in the future. Anderson and Sweeney are also loved by not only KW but Ozzie himself. That mlbrumours website is a pile of dank s***e.

[WCSox]

First, you said that Pierre's arm was "average."  Now, you are inferring that he actually has a "really weak arm."  Which is it?  You seem to be backtracking.

 

I'm not backtracking at all. He has an average arm that is statistically skewed by the fact that he plays in an enormous outfield. I can't imagine how many sac flies (rather than HRs) are hit into deep left-center in that ballpark. And Pierre takes the heat (statistically) for letting a runner advance on a 400-ft fly ball.

 

You are seriously suggesting that pierre and damon are good fielders, i am not talking arms ( even though throwing abilty is a big part)? Alrighty then. I can already see the type of players you are a fan of.

 

Outside of their arms, Pierre and Damon are both solid defensive CFs. It's difficult to imagine that a guy as small as pierre would have a cannon for an arm anyway. Arm strength isn't everything. Look at Sammy. He has a freaking rifle for an arm, but did it make him a good defensive player? No, he'd throw the ball into the freaking 3rd-base stands while trying to gun down a runner.

 

I'll say it again: I'll take Pierre in a heartbeat over a better defensive player like Rowand.

Edited December 31, 2005 by WCSox

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(3E8 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 01:41 PM)

Warning, small sample sizes ahead!

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Taveras batted .000 in 2004!!!!

 

[SSH2005]

If the WhiteSox are so amped up on having a speedy guy in CF, just use Owens.  Why waste the Count trade on Taveras.

 

Anderson is ready for the majors.  He is a KW type guy.  If we were so balls to the wall on getting another speed guy, we would of traded for Pierre.  He was on the block a month ago.  Anderson has a nice glove and a nice arm.  He gives us a potential upgrade over Rowand from the bat standpoint and not much of a dropoff if any in the field. 

 

Sweeney will be in RF, Anderson will be in CF, and Owens will be in LF in the future.  Anderson and Sweeney are also loved by not only KW but Ozzie himself.  That mlbrumours website is a pile of dank s***e.

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Owens isn't good defensively in center field. That's the problem. If he was, I would go with your plan. And the only way I would stick Podsednik back in center field would be if Bobby Abreu was playing left field.

Edited December 31, 2005 by SSH2005

[Cerbaho-WG]

I'm not backtracking at all.  He has an average arm that is statistically skewed by the fact that he plays in an enormous outfield.  I can't imagine how many sac flies (rather than HRs) are hit into deep left-center in that ballpark.  And Pierre takes the heat (statistically) for letting a runner advance on a 400-ft fly ball.

Outside of their arms, Pierre and Damon are both solid defensive CFs.  It's difficult to imagine that a guy as small as pierre would have a cannon for an arm anyway.  Arm strength isn't everything.  Look at Sammy.  He has a freaking rifle for an arm, but did it make him a good defensive player?  No, he'd throw the ball into the freaking 3rd-base stands while trying to gun down a runner.

 

I'll say it again:  I'll take Pierre in a heartbeat over a better defensive player like Rowand.

 

I'm dead serious here, do you huff gas before watching baseball? Pierre and Damon are atrocious center fielders and Sammy does not by any stretch of the imagination have a cannon for an arm.

[qwerty]

I'm dead serious here, do you huff gas before watching baseball? Pierre and Damon are atrocious center fielders and Sammy does not by any stretch of the imagination have a cannon for an arm.

 

Sosa has always had a very strong arm... just not much accuracy. He is like vlad to a lesser extent.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm dead serious here, do you huff gas before watching baseball? Pierre and Damon are atrocious center fielders and Sammy does not by any stretch of the imagination have a cannon for an arm.

Maybe 5 years ago Sosa had a good arm (couldn't throw it accurately though). Just like a few years ago Damon was a pretty good fielding Cfer (basically during his A's days) but he's never had anything but a total noodle arm.

[SSH2005]

^^^^^

 

Sosa's arm probably started sucking once he stopped delving into Manny Alexander's supply.

Edited December 31, 2005 by SSH2005

[WCSox]

Sammy does not by any stretch of the imagination have a cannon for an arm.

 

Sosa has always had a very strong arm

 

Talk about "huffing gas."

[Cerbaho-WG]

Sosa has always had a very strong arm... just not much accuracy. He is like vlad to a lesser extent.

 

So you consider long, loopy throws missing cutoff men a cannon? Sammy's throws have so much arc that they travel farther, which isn't indicative of a cannon, rather he just has poor arm strength and throws the ball higher to get more distance.

[qwerty]

I'm not backtracking at all.  He has an average arm that is statistically skewed by the fact that he plays in an enormous outfield.  I can't imagine how many sac flies (rather than HRs) are hit into deep left-center in that ballpark.  And Pierre takes the heat (statistically) for letting a runner advance on a 400-ft fly ball.

Outside of their arms, Pierre and Damon are both solid defensive CFs.  It's difficult to imagine that a guy as small as pierre would have a cannon for an arm anyway.  Arm strength isn't everything.  Look at Sammy.  He has a freaking rifle for an arm, but did it make him a good defensive player?  No, he'd throw the ball into the freaking 3rd-base stands while trying to gun down a runner.

 

I'll say it again:  I'll take Pierre in a heartbeat over a better defensive player like Rowand.

 

Rowand's defense wins you more games than pierre does period. They both had 11.6 win shares offensively and rowand was in the top ten defensively and pierre comes in at about 150. Plan and simple pierre is not a very good fielder.

[SSH2005]

ESPN echoes what Chisoxfn said...

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/scouting?statsId=4344

Baserunning & Defense

 

Sosa's defense continued to decline in 2004, and at times, it was painful watching him try to throw the ball toward third base or home plate. A nagging biceps injury didn't help, but Sosa's defensive game has been going downhill for several years. Sosa still hustles on the bases and is capable of taking the extra bag on balls hit to the outfield. He's no longer a basestealing threat.

You arm strength tends to get a lot worse when you aren't injecting roids into it anymore.

Edited December 31, 2005 by SSH2005

[Chisoxfn]

ESPN echoes what Chisoxfn said...

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/scouting?statsId=4344

You arm strength tends to get a lot worse when you aren't injecting roids into it anymore.

[SSH2005]

   

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[WCSox]

So you consider long, loopy throws missing cutoff men a cannon? Sammy's throws have so much arc that they travel farther, which isn't indicative of a cannon, rather he just has poor arm strength and throws the ball higher to get more distance.

 

I haven't watched much of Sammy since he went to the O's last year, but he had a freaking cannon back in his prime. If you don't know that, you haven't been paying attention.

[WCSox]

Rowand's defense wins you more games than pierre does period.

 

I disagree. Pierre's base-stealing prowess and higher OBP win more games.

[Chisoxfn]

I haven't watched much of Sammy since he went to the O's last year, but he had a freaking cannon back in his prime.  If you don't know that, you haven't been paying attention.

Exactly, whats 5 years ago matter. He doesn't have an arm anymore, which is exactly what I said.

[qwerty]

Talk about "huffing gas." 

 

Not quite...

 

So you consider long, loopy throws missing cutoff men a cannon? Sammy's throws have so much arc that they travel farther, which isn't indicative of a cannon, rather he just has poor arm strength and throws the ball higher to get more distance.

 

There is no question that he use to have a strong arm. Problem was he would over throw anything and everything and teams would try and run on him all day. Just like teams should be doing with vlad... because believe it or not, contrary to what ''experts'' try to make the common baseball fan think, vlad's are is not special.

 

As you can see i never said he had a ''cannon'', all that i said was it use to be strong, which is indeed the case. Not many players can make throws from the wall/warning track to the pitcher mound region accurate or not... and he use to be one of them.

[SSH2005]

I disagree.  Pierre's base-stealing prowess and higher OBP win more games.

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But qwerty just posted a stat that shows it doesn't.

[qwerty]

I disagree.  Pierre's base-stealing prowess and higher OBP win more games.

 

This is simply not true.

 

Not many would agree with this so i will just let it be as there is really no arguement.

[WCSox]

But qwerty just posted a stat that shows it doesn't. 

 

Win-share stats don't mean everything. They're dependent upon too many other variables. Given the significantly greater interest in Pierre than Rowand this offseason, it appears that most GMs don't take them to seriously either.

 

Rowand was a freaking rally-killer at the plate and on the bases at time this year. I'll take the small sacrifice in defense for the extra offensive boost that Pierre would provide.