Here's my last comment on this topic: Getting better for the future is fantastic but I highly doubt we're ever going to have a better shot at winning it then this year, right now I don't even see a team on paper that's in our league at this point(doesn't mean we'll win anything). We trade JC who I believe will be our best sp this season and one of the best in the league it weakens our best compenent significantly. Our rotation would still be very good but not as good and our world series chances would take a hit. You don't hurt a team that is presently world series calibur to maybe put the team in the same position in upcoming years but obviously this is all jmo.

Whoever said minor league numbers carry over to the majors, just because he sucks in triple a doesnt mean he is going to do bad in the majors, its all up to the player to perform.

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I never said that Anderson's minor league numbers were bad. It's just that Milledge's are better.

It looked like it last year......

Ditto for Clemens.

 

Just because some guys are able to pitch until they're 37-38 with no problems doesn't mean they won't have a problem pitching when they're 39, 40, 41, 42, etc. People start to break down, and it's hard to guess when it'll happen. Kerry Wood started to break down at age 22.

 

Schilling is a good example...dominant in 2004, 2nd in the Cy Young race...but then his body caught up to him, and who knows what he has left in the tank. Randy Johnson might be another one...he looked last year like he was starting to finally take some steps backwards after a dominant year in 04 for the DBacks.

Edited January 26, 200620 yr by Balta1701

True, it would be horrible if he's a bust but it's not like we would be trading a pitcher who is under contract for 3 years.  Any prospects we would trade Contreras for could turn out to be busts.

But you're also missing the other key fact of prospects...Kenny Williams has a habit of turning those prospects into All-Stars...before they reach the big leagues.

 

Personally, I'd hold onto a couple of guys so that we have a young outfield...but say KW looks around next offseason and sees someone offering another guy of Thome's caliber for Milledge? Even if he has a down year next year (isn't our AA park a hitter's park?), people would still give a ton for him based on previous reputation. Look what the BoSox got for Hanley Ramirez after a down year.

Here's my last comment on this topic: Getting better for the future is fantastic but I highly doubt we're ever going to have a better shot at winning it then this year, right now I don't even see a team on paper that's in our league at this point(doesn't mean we'll win anything).  We trade JC who I believe will be our best sp this season and one of the best in the league it weakens our best compenent significantly.  Our rotation would still be very good but not as good and our world series chances would take a hit.  You don't hurt a team that is presently world series calibur to maybe put the team in the same position in upcoming years but obviously this is all jmo.

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Now that's a stance I can respect. I just don't like the "Milledge could be a bust" argument. Hell, for all we know Contreras could be a bust next season without his buddy El Duque around. Now, I don't think that will be the case but it's definately a possibility.

At this point it would be pretty sweet if either the Mets or the Phils got Zito. The other team would feel compelled to add another SP and perhaps overpay a little. (In addition I could stop hearing half my Cub friends talk about Zito going to the North side.) As much as all these Abreu and Milledge deals sound tasty, we could probably benefit the most this year and in the future by a trade with the Dodgers. A pitcher like Contreras could easily put them over the top in the NL West. C'mon Colletti...

Now that's a stance I can respect.  I just don't like the "Milledge could be a bust" argument.  Hell, for all we know Contreras could be a bust next season without his buddy El Duque around.  Now, I don't think that will be the case but it's definately a possibility.

 

Uh oh Rowand. You hear that? You have Jabroni's respect now!! You're set.

 

We don't need to trade for Milledge. It's a risk. A risk we don't need to take.

You are giving up a grade A pitcher for a AA level minor league player even up? Please take a deep breath and settle down.

You are giving up a grade A pitcher for a AA level minor league player even up? Please take a deep breath and settle down.

I'd do it in a heart beat, but then again, I tend to think Contreras is extremely overrated on these boards, and getting one of the best prospects in baseball for him would be a steal.

Sheesh, Duaner Sanchez sure gets a lot of love for a guy who was worse than Luis Vizcaino last season, despite pitching in a much better park.

 

I'd do Heilman + Milledge, but Minaya would just hang up the phone if Kenny requested that.

I'd do it in a heart beat, but then again, I tend to think Contreras is extremely overrated on these boards, and getting one of the best prospects in baseball for him would be a steal.

 

Well one thing you have to keep in mind is Contreras actually pitched well in the first half too just didnt get the run support and wasnt as dominant as he was in the 2nd half.... so the fact he did it over a whole season and than in the playoffs gives people more confidence in him than just looking at his 2nd half of the season which you are doing.

 

 

But If we can trade him for a top prospect like Milledge and get a bp guy like Sanchez id want KW to do that trade in a heart beat especially since we will still have 5 good quality starters.

Sheesh, Duaner Sanchez sure gets a lot of love for a guy who was worse than Luis Vizcaino last season, despite pitching in a much better park.

 

I'd do Heilman + Milledge, but Minaya would just hang up the phone if Kenny requested that.

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Minaya did trade Cliff Lee and Grady Sizemore for half a season of Bartolo Colon. Of course, Podsednik is better than Grady Sizemore.

Well one thing you have to keep in mind is Contreras actually pitched well in the first half too just didnt get the run support and wasnt as dominant as he was in the 2nd half.... so the fact he did it over a whole season and than in the playoffs gives people more confidence in him than just looking at his 2nd half of the season which you are doing.

JC was not bad in the 1st half, but he wasn't good either. He was still walking way too many people and falling behind way too many others. In the 2nd half...he was getting ahead of people and batters had to fight him for walks. That was a huge difference...people had to swing against him, and when they try to swing against him...bad things happen to the batter.

JC was not bad in the 1st half, but he wasn't good either.  He was still walking way too many people and falling behind way too many others.  In the 2nd half...he was getting ahead of people and batters had to fight him for walks.  That was a huge difference...people had to swing against him, and when they try to swing against him...bad things happen to the batter.

Yep JC has found it, and if he still has it, he'll easily win 18-20 games this year. Here is an interesting question: Who will have more strike-outs Contreras or Vazquez? That should be a close race.

Yep JC has found it, and if he still has it, he'll easily win 18-20 games this year. Here is an interesting question: Who will have more strike-outs Contreras or Vazquez? That should be a close race.

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Vazquez, but Contreras could still have the better season ERA-wise.

How much power do you really need from CF?  Milledge probably has just as much power as Brian Anderson but he does everything else better as well.

 

If I'm trading an ace caliber starter (which Contreras has proven he is) for ONE hitting prospect, that prospect better be a future #3 hitter. Lastings Milledge projects more as a #2 or leadoff hitter at this point. If the Sox were to trade Contreras to the Mets, I'd be really upset if Milledge was the only player they got in return. If the Mets won't give up more, they can keep their potential future superstar who has just as much (if not more) potential to be a bust.

If I'm trading an ace caliber starter (which Contreras has proven he is) for ONE hitting prospect, that prospect better be a future #3 hitter. Lastings Milledge projects more as a #2 or leadoff hitter at this point. If the Sox were to trade Contreras to the Mets, I'd be really upset if Milledge was the only player they got in return. If the Mets won't give up more, they can keep their potential future superstar who has just as much (if not more) potential to be a bust.

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Do people forget that Contreras was mediocre to bad before his second half of last season? Do people also forget that he is only under contract for one season? C'mon...

 

Contreras doesn't have the track record of Buehrle or Garcia. Contreras could be a stud next season but he could very well be mediocre to bad and he will only be under contract for one year either way.

Edited January 26, 200620 yr by SSH2005

Well one thing you have to keep in mind is Contreras actually pitched well in the first half too just didnt get the run support and wasnt as dominant as he was in the 2nd half....

I sat through three of his starts in the first half, the dude is the master of the 40 pitch first inning.

 

He's always had a low opponents' batting average, but that's because he was typically all over the place with his control. Jose used to beat himself, he did that less in the second half last year.

Do people forget that Contreras was mediocre to bad before his second half of last season?  Do people also forget that he is only under contract for one season?  C'mon...

 

Contreras doesn't have the track record of Buehrle or Garcia.  Contreras could be a stud next season but he could very well be mediocre to bad and he will only be under contract for one year either way.

 

He has had 2 good years and 1 bad year.... so dont know where your coming from..... why is it people forget 2003 so easily?

He has had 2 good years and 1 bad year.... so dont know where your coming from..... why is it people forget 2003 so easily?

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Contreras only started 9 games in 2003. He pitched out of the bullpen in 9 other games.

If I'm trading an ace caliber starter (which Contreras has proven he is) for ONE hitting prospect, that prospect better be a future #3 hitter. Lastings Milledge projects more as a #2 or leadoff hitter at this point. If the Sox were to trade Contreras to the Mets, I'd be really upset if Milledge was the only player they got in return. If the Mets won't give up more, they can keep their potential future superstar who has just as much (if not more) potential to be a bust.

One of the nice things about where we're at right now is that we really don't NEED to trade Jose...we have ourselves sitting in a position of luxury. We can just go with 6 starters on the roster and genuinely make a run at a world series...and whether or not you agree with it, the team will be in good shape. In other words...KW can actually sit around waiting to be completely blown away by an offer for the guy, because the need to trade him is not garganutan. I don't think he'd be traded straight up for Milledge just for that reason. You want him, you've got to earn him.

Contreras only started 9 games in 2003.  He pitched out of the bullpen in 9 other games.

 

and? Did he not have a good season?

and?  Did he not have a good season?

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A good season to me is 30+ starts. 9 starts isn't a full season.

Edited January 26, 200620 yr by SSH2005

He has had 2 good years and 1 bad year.... so dont know where your coming from..... why is it people forget 2003 so easily?

He pitched in 71 innings in 2003. 71.

He pitched in 71 innings in 2003.  71.

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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/...ching&year=2003

 

58.2 IP as a starter in 2003

13.1 IP as a reliever in 2003