Duke Lacrosse Rape Allegation

[YASNY]

I thought it was interesting that the DA had the cabbie that supplied the alibi rearrested on an old charge.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

So, to all the folks who said that the D.A. had no case, that he was just doing it to get elected, that she was making the whole thing up, or whatever else people said to try to bash the people bringing the charges?

 

Forensic evidence matching a Duke Lacross player. Including DNA. Yeah. Remember how some of us (me) were saying that we should reserve judgement until all of the evidence was back and released? Yeah.

 

 

For all we know she could have done that while giving a lapdance or something. If they found semen in her thats one thing but this could be one of many things.

[Kyyle23]

I thought it was interesting that the DA had the cabbie that supplied the alibi rearrested on an old charge.

 

Doesnt surprise me. His girls have been discredited, now he is flinging some more mud the other way. I have a feeling its gonna be like this for quite some time.

[mr_genius]

I thought it was interesting that the DA had the cabbie that supplied the alibi rearrested on an old charge.

 

 

of course he did, he's an asshole.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

of course he did, he's an asshole.

 

 

Not to mention an opportunist, media whore and a s***ty DA. He's basically ruining as many people's lives as it takes to get this phony conviction and score some points with the black community who compose a good portion of his constituents.

[Steff]

For all we know she could have done that while giving a lapdance or something. If they found semen in her thats one thing but this could be one of many things.

 

 

 

The men claim she did not perform..

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

The men claim she did not perform..

 

 

Oversight on my part. I refuse to watch or read any media coverage of this story.

[mr_genius]

Not to mention an opportunist, media whore and a s***ty DA. He's basically ruining as many people's lives as it takes to get this phony conviction and score some points with the black community who compose a good portion of his constituents.

 

 

i totally agree

[EvilMonkey]

Here is a AP story on the second round of testing

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12762368/

 

2nd DNA test clears Duke players, defense says

Results show woman had sex with another man, attorney says

 

 

Attorney Joseph Cheshire, who represents a team captain who has not been charged, said the tests showed genetic material from a “single male source” was found on a vaginal swab taken from the accuser, but that material did not match any of the players.

 

“In other words, it appears this woman had sex with a male,” said Cheshire, who spoke at a news conference with other defense attorneys in the case. “It also appears with certainty it wasn’t a Duke lacrosse player.”

 

Cheshire said the testing did find some genetic material from several people on a plastic fingernail found in a bathroom trash can of the house where the team held the March 13 party. He said some of that material had the “same characteristics” — a link short of a conclusive match — to some of the players, but not the two who have been charged with rape, kidnapping and sexual assault.

 

Along with the fingernail, the trash can contained cotton swabs, tissue, toilet paper and other items that would carry the DNA of people who used the bathroom, Cheshire said.

 

Two members of the team have been charged with raping a stripper hired to perform at the party.

 

The dancer, a 27-year-old black student at nearby North Carolina Central University, told police she was raped and beaten for a half-hour by three white men at the party. A grand jury has charged sophomores Reade Seligmann, of Essex Fells, N.J., and Collin Finnerty, of Garden City, N.Y., with rape, kidnapping and sexual assault.

 

Defense attorneys have strongly proclaimed that all the players are innocent, consistently pointing to an initial round of DNA tests they said found no match between the 46 players tested and the accuser.

 

District Attorney Mike Nifong did not immediately return a call to his home seeking comment Friday night.

 

After the first round of tests came back from a state crime lab without a match, Nifong said that in 75 to 80 percent of all sexual assault cases, there is no DNA evidence. In those cases, prosecutors had to proceed “the good old-fashioned way. Witnesses got on the stand and told what happened to them,” he said last month.

 

But Stan Goldman, a Loyola Law School professor and former Los Angeles County public defender, said he would be surprised if Nifong went ahead with the case unless “they really have something significant that they are not revealing to us” — such as a lacrosse player willing to testify he saw a rape.

 

“There has got to be some really good prosecution explanation as to why the DNA evidence does not exist and why someone else’s would be there,” Goldman said.

 

Cheshire said the fact that the players turned over the fingernail shows they had nothing to hide.

 

“Is that consistent with someone that knowledgeably and knowingly committed a rape?” Cheshire said. “That they would leave fingernails that were ripped off a person in a violent struggle in their trash can after they’re told there’s an investigation and that police were going to come to their house, and when the police do, they give them the fingernails?”

 

According to a search warrant executed on March 16, police recovered five fingernails from the house, but it was unclear where those fingernails were found or whether they included the one containing DNA.

 

“Let’s wait and see the fingernails and see if they match up to the way she describes the attack took place,” Cheshire said.

 

Nifong has said he hoped to charge a third person, and he could do so as early as Monday at the next meeting of the Durham County grand jury.

 

“I’m not going to comment on whether I think it’ll be my client or not,” Cheshire said. “I hope it is none. It’ll simply be accusing another innocent person.”

 

The “single male source” who matched the genetic material found on the vaginal swab take from the victim is named in the report on the second round of DNA tests, which were done at a private lab. Cheshire said the man “is known to the Durham police department” but he declined to give the man’s name or comment on his relationship with the accuser.

 

“There is no indication that this man should have his name dragged through the mud,” he said.

 

I wonder why they don't mention the last guy? Could he be a non-white non-Lacrosse player?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Here is a AP story on the second round of testing

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12762368/

I wonder why they don't mention the last guy? Could he be a non-white non-Lacrosse player?

 

 

How much you want to bet he's not even on the team?

 

 

Methinks the DA is royally f***ed.

[samclemens]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/13/us/13duke.html

 

well, the DNA results are in...and they match this strippers boyfriend, and the stripper's boyfriend ONLY. how long until we call the biggest, fattest duck in american jurisprudence hypocrisy in recent memory what it is????

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/13/us/13duke.html

 

well, the DNA results are in...and they match this strippers boyfriend, and the stripper's boyfriend ONLY. how long until we call the biggest, fattest duck in american jurisprudence hypocrisy in recent memory what it is????

 

 

Now that all this nonsense about the Duke players having raped anyone has been put to rest, these boys are going to file a mondo lawsuit for false arrest and they're gonna get paid.

 

 

What did I say before? The DA had no case and he used this scuzzy stripper b****'s false accusations to bring forth phony, yet sensational rape charges. All of this was done so he could pander to the black community and secure his own re-election.

 

How many lives have been ruined because of this scuzzy b**** and this dirtbag DA? The whole team, the coach, that poor taxi driver who now has been arrested on an old charge simply to shut him up, and the team member's families.

 

Let the lawsuits commence. Sue that scuzzy b**** for slander and take whatever she's got left, sue the DA's office for filing false charges based on nothing but the word of the aforementioned scuzzy b**** and try to move on from there.

[bmags]

this whole case was ridiculous

[Balta1701]

A grand jury has returned an indictment against a 3rd Duke Lacross player in this case.

[RockRaines]

this whole case was ridiculous

As is everyone who was calling me an asshole for calling this case what it is.

[Soxbadger]

Nuke,

 

Please explain how they are going to:

 

1) Sue the stripper for slander.

 

2) Sue the DA for false arrest.

 

Each of these crimes have very specific elements. Im just wondering how they are going to prove them.

 

The problem is, if you go for 1, you can in no way go for 2. If you go for 2, you can in no way go for 1. Im not going to do the time to actually pull the case law, but my understanding for malicious prosecution and false arrest is that the police can not of acted upon a complaint by a person. The stripper in this case made a complaint, therefore it is the duty of the police and DA to investigate it.

 

They went to a grand jury, and the grand jury indicted them. That means that a grand jury feels that the police and DA have enough to get into the court room.

 

Rock,

 

Im sorry but I have to disagree. The only reason that the media is acting this way is because it is impossible for a good amount of people to believe:

 

"Rich white boys wanted to rape a poor black girl."

 

If this was a case where a pretty rich white girl was raped by a black man, ala Kobe or any football player case, the court of public opinion would have them locked away.

 

Luckily for us, trials are not decided by what the media says, they are decided by a court of law. The defendants will have their day in court, and they will have the great equalizer of the govt having the burden of proof. If the govt has no case, then there is no question they will walk. Reasonable doubt makes it very hard for the prosecution.

 

It should be interesting, but Im going to sit back and let the trial happen.

 

IMO you will have atleast 1 conviction (not sure whether they will get rape, assault, or something else, but atleast 1 defendant will get a conviction or plea).

 

Then what will everyone say?

Edited May 15, 2006 by Soxbadger

[mr_genius]

A grand jury has returned an indictment against a 3rd Duke Lacross player in this case.

 

 

a grand jury will indict anyone for anything.

 

so it doesn't mean there is a good case against the accused.

[Rex Kickass]

It also doesn't mean that there isn't either.

[BHAMBARONS]

Obviously this proves that there is no case here hopefully the defense files a motion to dismiss and this ordeal will come to an end. I hope they can prove she made up this whole story and charge her with making false statements and obstruction of justice. I don't think suing gets anything done here because she will never pay and the DA's office has the 3 Grand Jury true bills so any kind of false arrest law suits get thrown out.

[Controlled Chaos]

Justice delayed?

May 16, 2006

by Thomas Sowell

 

If there is a smoking gun in the Duke University rape case, it is not about the stripper who made the charges or the lacrosse players who have been accused. The smoking gun is the decision of District Attorney Michael Nifong to postpone a trial until the spring of 2007.

 

That makes no sense from either a legal or a social standpoint, whether the players are guilty or innocent. But it tells us something about District Attorney Nifong.

 

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that the players are guilty. What is the point of letting a bunch of rapists remain at large for another year? What about the dangers that they would pose to women on or off the Duke University campus?

 

 

Now suppose that the players are innocent. Isn't it unconscionable to have this damning charge hanging over their heads for another year?

 

The Constitution of the United States includes a right to a speedy trial, to keep people from being jerked around by unscrupulous or vindictive prosecutors who cannot prove that they have committed any crime. Prosecutors have to put up or shut up.

 

This is not a federal case, however, and the laws of North Carolina do not require a speedy trial.

 

Justice delayed is justice denied, whether the players are guilty or innocent.

 

What purpose does the delay serve? The most obvious purpose is the same as the purpose that delay serves in confidence games.

 

After a fraud has been perpetrated and it is only a matter of time before the victim finds out, it can still make a big difference whether the victim finds out suddenly or slowly over an extended period of time. This is called "cooling out the mark."

 

If the mark (the victim) finds out suddenly and immediately, instant outrage may lead to a call to the police, who can then get hot on the trail of the con man.

 

However, if the realization of having been taken begins to emerge at first as a sense of puzzlement, then as a sneaking suspicion, and ultimately -- after a passage of some time -- as a clear conclusion that a fraud has taken place, then the emotional impact is not nearly as strong.

 

The victim of the fraud may even be reluctant to go to the police, having had time to think about what a fool he may look like and how little chance there is now to do anything about it.

 

If the truth about Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky had come out the very next day after he made that dramatic declaration -- "I did not have sex with that woman" -- it would have been far more of a shock than it was months later, after more and more bits and dabs of information came out, leading many to suspect the truth long before it all came out.

 

One of Clinton's press secretaries called these delaying tactics "telling the truth slowly."

 

The announcement that the trial of the Duke lacrosse players has been postponed until the spring of 2007 may be District Attorney Nifong's way of beginning the process of "telling the truth slowly."

 

At some point, this case will have to be either prosecuted or dropped. If it is going to be prosecuted, there is no reason not to go full speed ahead right now. But if it is going to be dropped, or if Nifong knows that a judge is likely to throw it out of court, then the time at which that happens is crucial.

 

It was out of the question for Nifong to drop the case before the recent election, no matter how flimsy the evidence might be or how much of that evidence exonerates the accused instead of showing them to be guilty.

 

Even after being re-elected, the district attorney cannot let his indictment collapse in public while there is nationwide attention focussed on this case 24-7.

 

What will be different next year? The public will have either forgotten the case or be tired of hearing about it. The D.A. can even turn the case over to some lawyer on his staff to take into court and see it either get thrown out by the judge or fail to convince a jury.

 

We will all be tired of hearing about it by then. We are the marks who will be cooled out.

[RockRaines]

Someone needs to just end all this BS>

[samclemens]

Nuke,

 

Please explain how they are going to:

 

1) Sue the stripper for slander.

 

2) Sue the DA for false arrest.

 

Each of these crimes have very specific elements. Im just wondering how they are going to prove them.

 

The problem is, if you go for 1, you can in no way go for 2. If you go for 2, you can in no way go for 1. Im not going to do the time to actually pull the case law, but my understanding for malicious prosecution and false arrest is that the police can not of acted upon a complaint by a person. The stripper in this case made a complaint, therefore it is the duty of the police and DA to investigate it.

 

They went to a grand jury, and the grand jury indicted them. That means that a grand jury feels that the police and DA have enough to get into the court room.

 

Rock,

 

Im sorry but I have to disagree. The only reason that the media is acting this way is because it is impossible for a good amount of people to believe:

 

"Rich white boys wanted to rape a poor black girl."

 

If this was a case where a pretty rich white girl was raped by a black man, ala Kobe or any football player case, the court of public opinion would have them locked away.

 

Luckily for us, trials are not decided by what the media says, they are decided by a court of law. The defendants will have their day in court, and they will have the great equalizer of the govt having the burden of proof. If the govt has no case, then there is no question they will walk. Reasonable doubt makes it very hard for the prosecution.

 

It should be interesting, but Im going to sit back and let the trial happen.

 

IMO you will have atleast 1 conviction (not sure whether they will get rape, assault, or something else, but atleast 1 defendant will get a conviction or plea).

 

Then what will everyone say?

 

dude, how can you say that you see a conviction and a plea? there isnt any evidence yet revealed that is damning, and apparently now there is a serious lack of physical evidence. so, absent any other evidence, its going to be a gold digging stripper's word against the three charged players. and you see at least one conviction- how??

 

and yeah, if (and i believe it will) the charges turn out to be b.s., they can sue her for making a false accusation, libel, slander- but why even try? she obviously has no money to give them when she loses, all you will do is pay your lawyer to make someone else file for bankruptcy. of course they will not be able to sue nifong (the DA) for wrongful prosecution because that is incredibly hard to prove. they could sue the stripper for malicious prosecution, but why try for the same reason.

[RockRaines]

dude, how can you say that you see a conviction and a plea? there isnt any evidence yet revealed that is damning, and apparently now there is a serious lack of physical evidence. so, absent any other evidence, its going to be a gold digging stripper's word against the three charged players. and you see at least one conviction- how??

 

and yeah, if (and i believe it will) the charges turn out to be b.s., they can sue her for making a false accusation, libel, slander- but why even try? she obviously has no money to give them when she loses, all you will do is pay your lawyer to make someone else file for bankruptcy. of course they will not be able to sue nifong (the DA) for wrongful prosecution because that is incredibly hard to prove. they could sue the stripper for malicious prosecution, but why try for the same reason.

No use really arguing about this. There is no evidence, regardless of Badger's intentions of bringing this to a race argument, and black vs white, its really not that complicated. The DA is delaying the case a year so that when he comes out with the fact that they cant procecute these kids, its wont have that big of a backlash on his career. There is no DNA evidence, there was no evidence of anyone but her boyfriend having sex with her, the whole case and accusations is crap. This story will dive to the back back back pages of the news and eventually will fade away.

[mr_genius]

This story will dive to the back back back pages of the news and eventually will fade away.

 

 

yep, and thats what he wants. he knows he brought up charges on three innocent people for his own person gain... now he wants it to go away. from the information that has been brought out he has no chance in this case (unless he gets to handpick the jury with people like soxbadger who want a conviction no matter what the evidence suggests)

[jackie hayes]

I don't think the lacrosse players raped her, BUT -- let's stop trying to make out these guys as poor, put-upon innocents. There's a lot to suggest that many of the players are just racist, spoiled scum. The email, the broom handle suggestion, the "cotton shirt" comment. The most obvious reason to make the accusations is not money, but as a reaction to the general assholeness of the players. I don't want to see anyone wrongly convicted, but beyond that, f*** them.