Before the season started, I took the position that Ozzie should have Jermaine Dye hit third, with Thome fourth and Konerko fifth. I had several reasons:

 

1. We went 16-1 to finish the 2005 season and Dye earned the WS MVP hitting third.

2. JD showed more patience at the plate in the #3 hole.

3. Moving JD up would maximize his value without diminishing JT's contribution.

4. It gives us a better L/R balance through the lineup. Crede, for example, could hit sixth and AJ seventh.

 

But I never expected JD to hit like he has this year. Now, more than ever, I think Ozzie should make the switch. I just don't think JT is our best hitter. JD is. And our best hitter ought to hit third.

 

Look at JD's stats with runners on, runners in scoring position, and runners in scoring position with 2 outs.

 

Runners On 81 26 26 3 0 8 37 16 1 17 3 2 .321 .430 .654 1.084

Scoring Position 47 24 19 2 0 7 35 11 1 7 0 0 .404 .508 .894 1.402

Scoring Posn, 2 out 25 10 12 0 0 4 20 8 0 6 0 0 .480 .606 .960 1.566

 

 

Now compare those stellar numbers to JT's

 

Runners On 101 43 34 5 0 12 46 27 2 28 0 0 .337 .474 .743 1.217

Scoring Position 52 35 21 3 0 7 35 17 1 15 0 0 .404 .534 .865 1.399

Scoring Posn, 2 out 23 13 7 0 0 2 9 3 0 7 0 0 .304 .385 .565 .950

 

Certainly JT is no slouch. Those are exceptional numbers. But JD's are clearly better.

 

And I also don't think they register "productive outs." On that score, JT has 64 Ks to JD's 41 Ks. So Jermaine is more likely to advance the runner, especially a guy on third base.

 

The other problem I would identify is our record against lefties. One challenge we have is that Iguchi has sucked this year against lefties. He's hitting them at a .207 clip v. 338 against righties. So, even if we use Ozuna to lead off, our lineup against lefties usually has Uribe and Anderson at the bottom, then Ozuna/Pods, Iguchi/Thome. Only Ozuna hits lefties in that group. And if a righty has started but a lefty comes out of the bullpen, they get a nice long streak of guys they can get out. If any of those guys get on, JD would likely have a chance to knock them in. Right now, Thome often makes the last out -- or strands the guy on third with less than two outs.

 

 

So, while I don't think this would make a massive difference, I think it could make enough of a difference in close ballgames to be well worth making the switch.

Edited June 16, 200619 yr by VAfan

Ain't broke, don't fix it.

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. Dye's in the perfect spot. He's our best overall hitter right now. If he was batting 3rd, he'd be batting behind Pods and Iguchi. However, in the 5 spot, he's behind Thome and Konerko. Thome and PK are two of the better guys at getting on base. Thus, Dye has the ability to knock them in, and it doesn't always have to be with a homer. Thome's not the type of hitter who's going to hit sac flies, etc. It's one of the main reasons I hate playing small ball in front of him.

Ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

Took the words right out of my mouth. Don't fix it if it's not broken.

have you seen how many walks jim thome takes?

 

by the way, big jim just hit 22

Dye's stats could just be the result of hitting fifth. Why change it?

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. Dye's in the perfect spot. He's our best overall hitter right now. If he was batting 3rd, he'd be batting behind Pods and Iguchi. However, in the 5 spot, he's behind Thome and Konerko. Thome and PK are two of the better guys at getting on base. Thus, Dye has the ability to knock them in, and it doesn't always have to be with a homer. Thome's not the type of hitter who's going to hit sac flies, etc. It's one of the main reasons I hate playing small ball in front of him.

fathom is exactly correct on this one. Dye not only does a great job at knocking in Thome and PK when they get on base he is really comfy in the 5th hole without the pressure like hitting 3rd.

Thome's not the type of hitter who's going to hit sac flies, etc. It's one of the main reasons I hate playing small ball in front of him.

 

This seems to help make my point. Dye hit perfectly at the end of last season with small ball in front of him and Paul Konerko behind him. We went 16-1 and swept the World Series.

 

As for the "it aint broke" comments, my response is, "it's also not hitting on all cylinders." We're still a game and half behind Detroit. Jim Thome, after starting off on fire, has dropped to .277. Age is likely to start wearing him down, so don't expect his numbers to improve from here on out.

 

Also, as for Dye's great numbers being accumulated b/c he's hitting 5th, we already know from last year that he was fabulous in the #3 hole. He's just a much more well-rounded hitter than Jim Thome, and that's the guy who should hit 3rd in a lineup.

 

I just think this lineup:

 

Pods/Ozuna

Iguchi

Dye

Thome

Konerko

Crede

AJ

Uribe/Cintron

Anderson/Mack

 

would be better than

 

Pods/Ozuna

Iguchi

Thome

Konerko

Dye

AJ

Crede

Uribe/Cintron

Anderson/Mack

 

How much better? At least a couple games better already -- or enough to put us in first place -- and one that would keep us in first.

Edited June 16, 200619 yr by VAfan

I feel like I'm back in '05, the return of the incredibly off base VAfan threads.

How much better? At least a couple games better already -- or enough to put us in first place -- and one that would keep us in first.

 

This isn't last year. Our offense has been very good basically all season. There's no excuse to switch up our 3-4-5....it's the best in baseball.

This thread just makes me go:

You are aware Konerko is hitting .310 right...

Batting order isn't exactly the most important of aspects when talking about an efficent offense. It does matter, but shuffling your 3-4-5 hitters will make a minimal difference if any.

 

That being said I'm fine with the way everything is now, but I wouldn't mind seeing Dye-Thome-Konerko

 

Dye would be a great #3 hitter. Highest ISO (Isolated Power which is SLG-BA, great indicator of true power) on the team at 0.349. Thome at #4 becuase he's still getting on base and hitting for more power then Konerko. Konerko at #5, becuase as of now, Dye and Thome are having better seasons.

 

Changing the hitters would only make a small difference, but I'm not against the idea at all.

This is the absolute perfect way we should have the 3-4-5 set up. Look at how all 3 are feeding off eachother and all have had tremendous success this season. What a thread.

No.

I want 9 Pablo Ozuna's hitting.

As for the "it aint broke" comments, my response is, "it's also not hitting on all cylinders." We're still a game and half behind Detroit.

 

That MUCH?!? Boy this is NOT working! I mean I know we have the 2ns best record in the AL and we are hitting higher and scoring more runs than last year, but obviously this is the problem.

 

Jim Thome, after starting off on fire, has dropped to .277. Age is likely to start wearing him down, so don't expect his numbers to improve from here on out.

 

So that BOMB to center was hit with a cane, eh?

Nah, it won't have much of an impact either way, and guys have settled into a role at this point in the season. To risk throwing them off a familiar mental approach isn't worth the "theoretical" gains of having Dye bat earlier.

That MUCH?!? Boy this is NOT working! I mean I know we have the 2ns best record in the AL and we are hitting higher and scoring more runs than last year, but obviously this is the problem.

So that BOMB to center was hit with a cane, eh?

With how far that thing was hit, it must have been hit with an aluminum bat.

Edited June 16, 200619 yr by Rowand44

With how far that thing was hit, it must have been hit with an aluminum bat.

 

I did see Albert Belle and Jason Grimsley hanging out with Thome during BP. I believe Albert gave Grimsley a bat from his "personal" stash and Grimsley crawled through a air conditioning duct to place it in the bat rack.

Edited June 16, 200619 yr by chitownsportsfan

Pablo should hit 3rd!!!

Took the words right out of my mouth. Don't fix it if it's not broken.

How bout VaFan understands the game a little bit. Highest OBP, bat him 3rd. Thome, much higher OBP. He is a prototypical 3rd place hitter.

 

Bad idea dude.

 

PLus its no mistake Dye is having a career year batting 5th behind Thome and Kong.