July 30, 200619 yr great now once Javy loses it after 5 innings of dominance all we have is a tired bullpen to back him up he should have let Bmac tough it out a bit longer or something I mean the win was great today, but now were in a rough spot for tomorrow
July 30, 200619 yr So you are saying he should have left BMac in, who looked horrible on the mound. Real smart. Who cares if we win the game or not, as long as the bullpen is available for Javy's start! I think Rowand44 basically said everything that needs to be said.
July 30, 200619 yr QUOTE(GoRowand33 @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 11:31 PM) great now once Javy loses it after 5 innings of dominance all we have is a tired bullpen to back him up he should have let Bmac tough it out a bit longer or something I mean the win was great today, but now were in a rough spot for tomorrow if he would have left bmac in, someone would have made a thread complaining about that. good lord
July 30, 200619 yr Author alright maybe Bmac looked bad I'm happy that we won the game, but I still think we should have saved somebody for tomorrow If vazquez pitches an 8 inning gem or if the bullpen is masterful I'll very gladly eat my words, but when a pitcher has consistently shown he can't pitch more than 5-6 innings its not the best thing to use up the entire bullpen the night before (although it was in a winning effort atleast)
July 30, 200619 yr Why did Ozzie let us win this game? He should have brought Clifford back to lose it for us.
July 30, 200619 yr Ozzie had no choice, the bullpen looked awful today...I really hope that Javy can go out and pick our team up and give us a great start...hey even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile...
July 30, 200619 yr QUOTE(Thunderin @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 11:55 PM) You ALWAYS play to win the game. Tomorrow we will deal with tomorrow. Too many around here think that way. Sometimes you have to take a chance on a loss to keep things lined up for the long haul.
July 30, 200619 yr QUOTE(YASNY @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 07:07 AM) Too many around here think that way. Sometimes you have to take a chance on a loss to keep things lined up for the long haul. So your saying we should of kept B-Mac in and got toasted and ended up losing this game? You play everygame to win it...We might not even be in position to win this next game so why throw away 1 game to try to win another? Also riske wasnt ever used and Thornton only faced 1 batter so im sure both of them are more than ready to go.
July 30, 200619 yr QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 02:19 AM) So your saying we should of kept B-Mac in and got toasted and ended up losing this game? You play everygame to win it...We might not even be in position to win this next game so why throw away 1 game to try to win another? Also riske wasnt ever used and Thornton only faced 1 batter so im sure both of them are more than ready to go. No, I'm not saying that as I didn't watch the game. I'm talking in general terms here. Yes, you play every game to win, but you don't cripple your bullpen for a week to win one game ... or for three days. You want your players, not just the pen, to be as close to full strength in Sept. as they are in May. You absolutely cannot just play to win today without considering the long term effects on your team. Any manager that does that will watch his team hit a wall about August 15th and sink like a lead weight through September.
July 30, 200619 yr QUOTE(YASNY @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 07:27 AM) No, I'm not saying that as I didn't watch the game. I'm talking in general terms here. Yes, you play every game to win, but you don't cripple your bullpen for a week to win one game ... or for three days. You want your players, not just the pen, to be as close to full strength in Sept. as they are in May. You absolutely cannot just play to win today without considering the long term effects on your team. Any manager that does that will watch his team hit a wall about August 15th and sink like a lead weight through September. Well I agree to an extent... as in you have to give your bullpen guys a break every so often and position players as well for the most part. But in this specific game... I have no problem with Ozzie wasting the pen considering the heat and type of game it was.
July 30, 200619 yr QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 02:29 AM) Well I agree to an extent... as in you have to give your bullpen guys a break every so often and position players as well for the most part. But in this specific game... I have no problem with Ozzie wasting the pen considering the heat and type of game it was. Ozzie had no choice but to "waste the pen" with Garland pitching under medication and with a sinus infection. Leaving BMac in there might have 'saved' the pen, but do you let a young pitcher with potential star quality 'take one for the team' or do you battle through today and hope tomorrow's lineup and starting pitcher come through to give the pen an easy day? It's a crap shoot, and Ozzie has to go with the info on hand (I'm not talking stats like BA against while going through the order the time, I'm talking about Ozzie interacting and communicating with his players to get inside their heads so he knows how guys are feeling ... the type of info we don't have and never take into consideration).
July 30, 200619 yr he should have let Bmac tough it out a bit longer or something I mean the win was great today, but now were in a rough spot for tomorrow Damned if you do; damned if you don't. That's why I love Oz's public persona. He tells the world on a daily basis to fish off or basically if you want to fire me go ahead. Second guessing is the name of sports.
July 30, 200619 yr After winning in dramatic fashion on Fri, Ozzie probably was trying to keep the momentum going. That kind of game could snap the sox out of their slump. So him pulling out all the stops including using his bullpen on Sat, makes perfect sense in the short term. Keep playing to win every game for a while to get a little streak going, get the sox confidence back. I'd expect him to do the same on Sun as well. They can't keep using everyone in the bullpen every day. But they haven't been used that much up to this point in the season. IIRC, the sox 'pen has the fewest innings pitched in MLB
July 30, 200619 yr Thursday: off Pitches thrown Friday: Cotts 6 MacDougal 14 Thornton 4 Jenks 15 Pitches thrown yesterday: McCarthy 36 Cotts 24 MacDougal 17 Thornton 4 Jenks 16 Brandon might be just a little bit iffy but the rest should all be good to go today. While we all would prefer that Mac had covered 2 or 3 innings, I don't see how it is any fault of Ozzie's that he used up 36 pitches to cover 1. David Riske has not been used for 3 days. Considering the beer league softball game played yesterday, the pen is in as good as shape as could be hoped for.
July 30, 200619 yr QUOTE(TLAK @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 10:35 PM) Brandon might be just a little bit iffy but the rest should all be good to go today. While we all would prefer that Mac had covered 2 or 3 innings, I don't see how it is any fault of Ozzie's that he used up 36 pitches to cover 1. David Riske has not been used for 3 days. Considering the beer league softball game played yesterday, the pen is in as good as shape as could be hoped for. Riske can certainly go for about 2 innings if we need him to, and Thornton certainly should be able to for at least an inning, so I think we'll be alright. It'll be a BIG boost if Javy can just have a good outing though.
July 30, 200619 yr The Sox won the series, which is what they wanted to do. Even if you have the bullpen totally rested for Vazquez and lose yesterday because of it, the very best you would be able to do is take 2 of 3. That is now the worst-case scenerio. Ozzie's no wizard when handling his bullpen, but he did the right thing yesterday, and got the all important win.
July 30, 200619 yr Just because of this thread, Javy will go 8+ today just to give soxtalk a big middle finger.
July 30, 200619 yr QUOTE(GoRowand33 @ Jul 29, 2006 -> 11:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> great now once Javy loses it after 5 innings of dominance all we have is a tired bullpen to back him up he should have let Bmac tough it out a bit longer or something I mean the win was great today, but now were in a rough spot for tomorrow What was the other option? If you are going to question a move, then give an alternative. I honestly didn't see one.
July 30, 200619 yr The Sox were in a good position to win the game yesterday. They may or may not be after 5 or 6 innings today. Why throw away one great oppurtunity to win today to *maybe* be in a good spot tomorrow?
July 30, 200619 yr QUOTE(GoRowand33 @ Jul 30, 2006 -> 04:31 AM) great now once Javy loses it after 5 innings of dominance all we have is a tired bullpen to back him up he should have let Bmac tough it out a bit longer or something I mean the win was great today, but now were in a rough spot for tomorrow You have to play to win the game number one and no matter what you have to do. The key to Saturday's game in my opinion was the failure of Brandon McCarthy to shut down the Orioles. However, the whole pitching staff did their part in almost blowing the game. I think for Sunday we still have Thornton for a couple innings and probably McDougall and Jenks to close as they only went one each.
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