Study hard, or you will be dumb,

[Gene Honda Civic]

It's six days left until an election. And the GOP is losing on nearly every issue. So instead of defending their record, they attack.... a junior Senator... who isn't running for anything.

In all fairness, our intelligence from Darfur indicates that Kerry is hiding the missing WMDs.

[sox4lifeinPA]

For what it's worth to the conversation....

 

I didn't graduate college yet and I didn't serve in Iraq

 

I have a friend who did reserves but never finished college and served in Iraq

 

I have a friend who graduated with honors from U of Maryland with a poly sci degree and joined the army and served in Iraq.

 

I have a friend who is serving now and when he comes home will finish school with the money he earned.

 

 

 

There are a million different reasons to join the military... is "I have no other choice" one of them?

 

yes.

[mr_genius]

dude, thats the sweetest holloween costume i've ever seen.

[sox4lifeinPA]

dude, thats the sweetest holloween costume i've ever seen.

 

 

that's my nephew.... He's "Pimpbot 2000"

 

 

unfortunately or fortunately, that's from this summer and not halloween

[southsider2k5]

OK the one thing that bugs me about this arguement is if John Kerry is traveling around the country speaking on behalf of the canditates why wouldn't we listen to him? Is he all of the sudden not a representative of his party? If that is the case, why doesn't he and anyone who isn't "running for office" just stay home, because their words don't matter anyway. I mean everyone was all but willing to jump all up into Rush's s*** when he said what he did about Michael J Fox, and I didn't hear anyone saying that it doesn't really matter, because even less then a Junior Senator and former Presidential canditate nominee, he is only a TV/radio personality, so what does it really matter? Now everyone wants to debate "the issues"? Please.

[Texsox]

OK the one thing that bugs me about this arguement is if John Kerry is traveling around the country speaking on behalf of the canditates why wouldn't we listen to him? Is he all of the sudden not a representative of his party? If that is the case, why doesn't he and anyone who isn't "running for office" just stay home, because their words don't matter anyway. I mean everyone was all but willing to jump all up into Rush's s*** when he said what he did about Michael J Fox, and I didn't hear anyone saying that it doesn't really matter, because even less then a Junior Senator and former Presidential canditate nominee, he is only a TV/radio personality, so what does it really matter? Now everyone wants to debate "the issues"? Please.

 

SS. Excellent point. Goes to the heart of credibility. In an adjacent thought, I dislike the free pass candidates get on the campaign trail. "It's not what they *really* think." BTW, which party banner are you flying in your quest for world domination?

 

Jim, no. Guess again.

[EvilMonkey]

Equating Kerry's remarks with Mark Foley's actions? Please, this is just silly.

 

It's six days left until an election. And the GOP is losing on nearly every issue. So instead of defending their record, they attack.... a junior Senator... who isn't running for anything.

I never equated Foleys actions with Kerrys words. I equated the reaction by both parties to something someone on the othert side did. Foley screwed up, and the Dems jumped on it for political gain, trying to paint the party in general as bad guys. Kerry insults the troops, despite his intentions, and makes it worse when trying to appear defiant, so the Republicans jump on it. You cry foul, and I just point out that both sides do it, such as with Foley, Limbaugh's words and Allen's possible use of words.

 

And John Kerry has been in office since 1985. How does that make him a junior senator?

[Steff]

OK the one thing that bugs me about this arguement is if John Kerry is traveling around the country speaking on behalf of the canditates why wouldn't we listen to him? Is he all of the sudden not a representative of his party? If that is the case, why doesn't he and anyone who isn't "running for office" just stay home, because their words don't matter anyway. I mean everyone was all but willing to jump all up into Rush's s*** when he said what he did about Michael J Fox, and I didn't hear anyone saying that it doesn't really matter, because even less then a Junior Senator and former Presidential canditate nominee, he is only a TV/radio personality, so what does it really matter? Now everyone wants to debate "the issues"? Please.

 

 

Rush was attacking someone with a disease who is trying to find a cure that could help millions of people. Unprevoked might I ad. And he didn't attack his words, he attacked his presence and claimed MJF was being a fraud in displaying his disease.

 

Trying to comparing that to Kerry directly, though badly, attacking Bush - indirectly - with a dumb ass joke is ill. Nicely...

[NorthSideSox72]

If we are playing guess the speaker, who said that?

I'm gonna go with Rumsfeld, who himself was a graduate of New Trier.

 

 

Kerry is a terrible politician.

 

He tells the truth at inopportune times, (I voted against it, before I voted for it) and doesn't continue to back up those statements with truth, instead electing to go into damage control mode like he did today, which, incedently, doesn't resonate with voters. It only makes him look worse.

This is right on, I think. Kerry says things that are true but should never be said in public, this quote included. Which might not have been bad, if he had stuck to his guns on it. Instead, he piled on this completely unbelievable lie about it being directed towards Bush.

 

Let's recap this drama...

 

> Kerry, speaking to an audience of at-risk youth, implies that a lack of education may result in some of them ending up "stuck in Iraq".

 

> The fact that he is 100% correct doesn't seem relevant to anyone, including, apparently, himself.

 

> The GOP jumps on this political opportunity, employing their typical straw man tactics by saying Kerry called our military "stupid"

 

> The fact that Kerry said no such thing doesn't seem relevant to anyone other than the Dems.

 

> Kerry fires back with a big, fat, see-thru lie which he tries to mask as an apology: he claims he meant Bush, not the troops.

 

> The fact that the joke would make zero sense if that were true doesn't seem relevant to anyone other than John Kerry.

 

> And finally, voila - the small piece of truth that Kerry originally brought to the table has been so thoroughly beaten into submission that most of the public can see only the steaming piles of B.S. heaped onto the situation by both political parties, the media (MSM and otherwise), an angry electorate.

 

> The fact that John Kerry's views should have little or nothing to do with who people vote for on 11/7 doesn't seem relevant to anyone at all.

[Jenksismyhero]

And last, but not least, the same thing applies to the people youlisted. Their service record has no bearing on the validity of their views regarding war. Serving does not automatically make your view superior, or even better informed, nor does it give you a free pass from criticism.

 

I agree. My view on this (and Kerry) was similar to Dennis Miller who thought that being a veteran might actually be a bad thing when it comes to war. Maybe with the experiences gained you'd be hesitant to push the button at the right time. Or maybe you'd be overzealous in your planning. There's a reason 'civilians' work hand in hand with major generals of the armed forces in managing our military.

[EvilMonkey]

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalS...ty/cda06-09.cfm

 

A study on the makup of military recruits from 2002-2005. Some relevent lines...

 

According to the 2004 Census ACS, 75.6 per­cent of the national adult population self-identifies as belonging to the racial category white alone. In both 2004 and 2005, 73.1 percent of recruits were classified as white alone.

 

 

In 2004, 92.1 percent of active-duty officer accessions held baccalaureate degrees or higher.[5] From 2000 to 2005, between 10 percent and 17 percent of active-duty officer accessions held advanced degrees, and between 35 percent and 45 percent of the active-duty officer corps held advanced degrees.[6] This indicates that officers continued their educa­tion during the course of their mili­tary service.

 

 

Although only about 7 percent of recruits for 2003–2005 entered the military with some college experi­ence, over 11 percent of the 2004 active component enlisted force had some college experience.[7]

 

 

When comparing these wartime recruits (2003– 2005) to the resident population ages 18–24 (as recorded in Census 2000), areas with median household income levels between $35,000 and $79,999 were overrepresented, along with income categories between $85,000 and $94,999. (See Chart 2.) Though the mainstream media continue to portray the war in Iraq as unpopular, this evi­dence suggests that the United States is not sending the poor to die for the interests of the rich.

[SoxFan562004]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11022006/news/..._washington.htm

 

Good story about troops reaction to the statement.

 

I've heard the same kind of things from some friends and family, and a little from media reports, that most of the troops over there see a lot of good and change, and are proud of what they do. I know 3 people who've served in Iraq, at various levels of the military, and they all get really annoyed, and claim other troops do to, when celebrities pull the "We support the troops, but not the way"

 

Basically one of my family members in the service say that a lot of troops don't want that type of support, and view it as PR ploys...

 

Not sure how I feel, just passing along some of the military opinions I've heard

[Cknolls]

John Kerry sucks at politics. I wish he'd go away (I'm a democrat too)

 

 

He sucks at skiing too. Just ask the secret service.

 

I guess the media isn't as interested in this as the Foley story. CNN reporters actually expresstheir desire that they 'hope the story goes away soon'.

http://newsbusters.org/node/8745

http://newsbusters.org/node/8746

 

 

Shocking!!

[Texsox]

I'm gonna go with Rumsfeld, who himself was a graduate of New Trier.

 

Rumsfeld and Jesse. Can we get further apart on the political scale?

 

Not even close. But I am surprised that no one objected to anything in the quote.

 

I am going to toss this thought out there and see how fast it comes flying back into my face. During a draft, the average new soldier probably comes from a more privileged background.(by privileged I am thinking social, economic, and IQ). Absent of a draft, the aberage drops as kids with choices opt for university and other careers. An all-volunteer Army will also see a fluctuation. During long stretces of peace, it probably increases and during wars, drops a bit. Some people like the benefits, education, three squares, health, etc. but don't like getting shot at.

 

Of course there will be some exceptions, but for the average Juan coming in off the street, I think that holds true. And it has forever, and will continue forever.

[Jenksismyhero]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11022006/news/..._washington.htm

 

Good story about troops reaction to the statement.

 

I've heard the same kind of things from some friends and family, and a little from media reports, that most of the troops over there see a lot of good and change, and are proud of what they do. I know 3 people who've served in Iraq, at various levels of the military, and they all get really annoyed, and claim other troops do to, when celebrities pull the "We support the troops, but not the way"

 

Basically one of my family members in the service say that a lot of troops don't want that type of support, and view it as PR ploys...

 

Not sure how I feel, just passing along some of the military opinions I've heard

 

 

LOL:

 

""You remember John Kerry, the senator who voted for the $87 billion before he voted against it - the guy that was always lecturing us about nuances," Vice President Dick Cheney said to a Montana GOP rally in remarks prepared for delivery.

 

Added Cheney, "Of course, now Sen. Kerry says he was just making a joke, and he botched it up. I guess we didn't get the nuance. He was for the joke before he was against it" - a reprise of the flip-flopper stigma Republicans tied to Kerry in 2004. "

 

 

Score one for the 'evil side.'

[Balance]

And John Kerry has been in office since 1985. How does that make him a junior senator?

Because Ted Kennedy's been a Massachusetts senator longer?

[mr_genius]

> The fact that he is 100% correct

 

 

members of the armed services are no less educated than the average american. that is a fact.

Edited November 2, 2006 by mr_genius

[NorthSideSox72]

members of the armed services are no less educated than the average american. that is a fact.

I didn't say otherwise. Look more closely at what was said. If a person is uneducated, they are more likely to HAVE to join the military as a way out. This is because they have a lot fewer options. Many very well-educated people join the military, but not generally out of NEED. Is that more clear?

[Gene Honda Civic]

members of the armed services are no less educated than the average american. that is a fact.

I've always held the belief that Americans, on the whole, are pretty damn stupid.

 

That study linked above is skewing the facts pretty heavily. 90% of officers have college degrees? wow, that would be like saying 90% of managers at Taco Bell have degrees. It's pretty much a requirement for the job.

[NorthSideSox72]

Polls and pundits seem to indicate that this whole mess will have little impact on the election.

[Rex Kickass]

Speaking of candidates who won't apologize, Sen. George Allen of Virginia won't even say what his handlers did was wrong when they tackled a "heckler" at a campaign event in front of TV cameras.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/02/vir...e.ap/index.html

 

Senator Allen IS up for reelection.

[mr_genius]

I didn't say otherwise. Look more closely at what was said. If a person is uneducated, they are more likely to HAVE to join the military as a way out. This is because they have a lot fewer options. Many very well-educated people join the military, but not generally out of NEED. Is that more clear?

 

in many cases, the youngest memebers of the military have the same level of education as their peers whom are newly enrolled in college. it is often people without the resources to attend college that join the military as a way to have access to the needed resources to further their education after their service.

 

the vast majority of people without a degree do not join the military. it is a difficult path to take when there are other options. so you do not NEED to join the military if you don't have an advanced degree, other options are available.

 

also, as i stated earlier, Kerry wasn't even trying to imply that if you don't study hard you'll end up serving in Iraq. in context, it is obvious he was trying to make a joke about Bush's academic career and his viewed inability to "get us out of Iraq".

 

That study linked above is skewing the facts pretty heavily. 90% of officers have college degrees? wow, that would be like saying 90% of managers at Taco Bell have degrees. It's pretty much a requirement for the job.

 

officers are members of the military so their education level would be relevant to the discussion.

Edited November 2, 2006 by mr_genius

[Steff]

I'm not sure of you are aware but there is an "educational" requirement to get into the military.

 

And from what I have heard, it's not so easy anymore. IMO, it would be easier for an uneducated person to collect welfare - and they do - than it would be to join the military.

[Texsox]

Interesting note regarding the military and education. They created the GED, and now will no longer accept it for enlisting. (Oops, they didn't as of a couple years ago, that may have changed.)

[NorthSideSox72]

also, as i stated earlier, Kerry wasn't even trying to imply that if you don't study hard you'll end up serving in Iraq. in context, it is obvious he was trying to make a joke about Bush's academic career and his viewed inability to "get us out of Iraq".

I disagree. I think there is no way, grammatically or otherwise, he was referring to Bush. He said "stuck IN Iraq". He meant exactly what he said - they'd get stuck there serving. Bush isn't IN Iraq. It makes no sense.

 

Which makes Kerry's absurd responses all the more insulting. The man truly cannot lead.

 

 

I'm not sure of you are aware but there is an "educational" requirement to get into the military.

 

And from what I have heard, it's not so easy anymore. IMO, it would be easier for an uneducated person to collect welfare - and they do - than it would be to join the military.

I wouldn't call having an HS Diploma a high educational hurdle.