If the team is set

[NorthSideSox72]

First of all, we've heard it before dude, and it's already been discussed.

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56373

 

Secondly, you name 2 players as to why this season is going to suck and why the offseason was bad. Completely disregard the amount of depth brought in to the bullpen - proven or not - and the amount of pitching brought in that will be ready for the future.

 

And, finally, may I ask...what did the other teams in the division do to improve themselves? The Tigers added Gary Sheffield, the Indians added 200 years of experience in their bullpen and a couple solid OFers, and the Twins added Ramon Ortiz and Sidney Ponson. Maybe it's just me, but I'll take the Sox offseason over their's.

 

But maybe that's just me.

[jackie hayes]

And, finally, may I ask...what did the other teams in the division do to improve themselves? The Tigers added Gary Sheffield...

Sheffield's alright, but it's the other Tiger pickup that makes me shudder.

[thedoctor]

And, finally, may I ask...what did the other teams in the division do to improve themselves?

 

that's the most important question. last year we were one of the six best teams in baseball, but had the misfortune of playing in the best league. it stands to reason that a first or second place finish in our division would provide a strong opportunity to make the playoffs.

 

looking around at the rest of the league no one made any watershed move that is going to push them head and shoulders above anyone else. the royals will be the royals and it wouldn't surprise me to see a bit of drop off from the tigers and twins. i do think the indians will be greatly improved, however.

 

in that climate i like our chances. we didn't do anything earth-shattering, but despite the conventional wisdom we probably didn't have to.

Edited February 7, 2007 by thedoctor

[witesoxfan]

Sheffield's alright, but it's the other Tiger pickup that makes me shudder.

 

let's just omit that move

 

that's the most important question. last year we were one of the six best teams in baseball, but had the misfortune of playing in the best league. it stands to reason that a first or second place finish in our division would provide a strong opportunity to make the playoffs.

 

looking around at the rest of the league no one made any watershed move that is going to push them head and shoulders above anyone else. the royals will be the royals and it wouldn't surprise me to see a bit of drop off from the tigers and twins. i do think the indians will be greatly improved, however.

 

in that climate i like our chances. we didn't do anything earth-shattering, but despite the conventional wisdom we probably didn't have to.

 

agree completely with this move, and I think that's why we didn't see KW bust a nut to make a huge move this offseason. Had he, we wouldn't be competing in the next few years. Now, the Sox have a few young arms they can develop into a potentially respectable rotation, and they'll have room in the payroll to add a few bats. That's why I am actually really happy with this offseason, because he essentially kept the team in tact while making room for the future.

[badatbest]

I'll admit, i just about jumped off a bridge when they dealt McCarthy, (still think its stupid to trade young talent to get young talent) but i feel alright with what we have right now.

[shoota]

Pretty gay offseason.

[NorthSideSox72]

Pretty gay offseason post.

Fixed.

[CanOfCorn]

Fixed.

What makes people think Javier "Headcase" Vazquez will somehow be able to magically pitch in the AL?

 

What makes people think Podsednik could possibly offer anything but disappointment?

 

Worst offseason in recent memory. I feel worse about this team than about any team since 1999.

 

Ah, that ol' chestnut. What makes you think Dye will have another good season? What makes you think Konerko would? Or Jenks? Or Iguchi?

 

See, you don't know s***. And either do I. Or anyone else on this board. That's why they play 162 games. Are you telling me you KNEW the 2005 Sox were going to win the World Series in February of 2005? Doubt it seriously.

[southsider2k5]

First of all, we've heard it before dude, and it's already been discussed.

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56373

 

Secondly, you name 2 players as to why this season is going to suck and why the offseason was bad. Completely disregard the amount of depth brought in to the bullpen - proven or not - and the amount of pitching brought in that will be ready for the future.

 

And, finally, may I ask...what did the other teams in the division do to improve themselves? The Tigers added Gary Sheffield, the Indians added 200 years of experience in their bullpen and a couple solid OFers, and the Twins added Ramon Ortiz and Sidney Ponson. Maybe it's just me, but I'll take the Sox offseason over their's.

 

But maybe that's just me.

 

Personally I liked the part where he talked about how he predicted 105 wins in 2006, and called me out on my 06 prediction, and then ran away when I showed it to him.

[retro1983hat]

No, you just don't appreciate a SS that can hit the ball past the pitcher, and you apparently don't appreciate gold glove defense at SS as well.

 

 

Did I miss Juan Uribe's Gold Glove presentation?

Must have been on the same day he was near that murder.

Anyways, yes, I don't appreciate guys like A-Rod, Jeter, Tejada. They never hit the ball past the pitcher. Of course Uribe actually has to make contact to get it past the pitcher.

[Steve9347]

Pretty gay offseason.

 

What? Not every offseason can bring in Javier Vasquez and Jim Thome (look where that got us...) I'm sure you said the same when all we did was bring in some Japanese 2B, an aging starter in El Duque, traded El Caballo for Scotty Pods, and brought in a "nut job" in AJ Pierzynski.

 

Sometimes its the little moves that make you better, and I can't remember a time when I was more excited about a collection of young arms on the South Side. Sure, they aren't all going to work out, but this Spring Training and season are going to be incredibly entertaining, because of this offseason.

 

KW was just trying to stay ahead of a ridiculous curve by acquiring youth, and I'm excited about that.

[Hideaway Lights]

Ah, that ol' chestnut. What makes you think Dye will have another good season? What makes you think Konerko would? Or Jenks? Or Iguchi?

 

See, you don't know s***. And either do I. Or anyone else on this board. That's why they play 162 games. Are you telling me you KNEW the 2005 Sox were going to win the World Series in February of 2005? Doubt it seriously.

 

I don't think Dye will have another good season. I don't necessary think Konerko would, although he's usually good for .280/30/100. I also don't think Thome is any younger this year. I think Jenks will actually probably have a better year because he is in shape.

 

I liked the 2004/2005 offseason moves very much, and I thought the team had a strong chance to win the division if Podsednik could have a good year. Now that I know more about this player, I would say the chances of him ever producing another good season 2 years later and a couple of injuries down the road are slim to none.

 

Vazquez has not been able to pitch in the AL. This is not fantasy, this is fact. In two seasons he has been subpar and frankly unacceptable. His best years are probably behind him, and he has been regressing psychologically rather than progressing. What do you see that you like? His stuff? Great. Stuff only goes so far when you are completely retarded.

 

The White Sox needed to improve the starting pitching, the bullpen and needed to address the leadoff hitter. They made their starting pitching worse in the short run on a high risk move by subtracting an innings eater and their best prospect and adding a failed major leaguer and two projects that may pay off by 08 or 09. They made their bullpen better. A+ on that front. They addressed their leadoff hitter by going on the cheap with what turns out to be not only a 0 tool AAAA player, but now an injured 0 tool AAAA player.

 

I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but this offseason SUCKED in my opinion.

[Steve9347]

I also don't think Thome is any younger this year.

 

You sure about that?

[KevHead0881]

I don't think Dye will have another good season.

 

Care to explain why?

[Hideaway Lights]

Care to explain why?

 

Sorry, I mean that I don't think Dye is going to have another great season like he did in 06, because that was pretty far off his career numbers.

 

Sure, there's a chance he's just putting it all together late in his career, but it's more likely that there's been some improvement and some aspect of having a career year.

 

Also, you have to factor in that he's been injury prone in the past and we've gotten essentially two injury-free seasons out of him.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

At first glance the offseason seems bad because the Sox didn't add any "big" pieces. Also, the Sox didn't add payroll and the players they traded made more than the players they got back. Therfore, it looks like they've been cheap.

 

I choose to believe that they aren't being cheap but didn't see any good values out there for them to spend big money. Hopefully, they are saving it for when it is needed - July trade deadline, extensions for some current players or moves after this season.

 

I think this offseason would have to be graded in the "C" area because they improved somewhat with the backup catcher and the bullpen appears significantly improved.

 

The starting rotation is down a bit.

 

The lineup has remained the same. The outfield needed to be addressed and it wasn't. Some people thought an upgrade at SS was needed.

[KevHead0881]

Sorry, I mean that I don't think Dye is going to have another great season like he did in 06, because that was pretty far off his career numbers.

 

Sure, there's a chance he's just putting it all together late in his career, but it's more likely that there's been some improvement and some aspect of having a career year.

 

Also, you have to factor in that he's been injury prone in the past and we've gotten essentially two injury-free seasons out of him.

 

Ok. Well, that is different. I pretty much agree that he won't have another '06. If I were to make a prediction, I'd say he'd be more between '05 and '06. Somewhere in the .280/35/100 region.

[witesoxfan]

Did I miss Juan Uribe's Gold Glove presentation?

Must have been on the same day he was near that murder.

Anyways, yes, I don't appreciate guys like A-Rod, Jeter, Tejada. They never hit the ball past the pitcher. Of course Uribe actually has to make contact to get it past the pitcher.

 

Perhaps you missed the part where they make $20 mill a year and up (except Tejada of course, who is just involved in steroid rumors all the time), and the fact that none of them are even close to Uribe defensively.

 

And if you are actually going to use gold gloves to indicate how good a player is defensively, then you've lost your mind. I use the term "gold-glove caliber" because when used, people instantly equate it with good defense. Derek Jeter isn't half the defensive SS Uribe is.

 

The only real alternative to Uribe this offseason was a similar player in Alex Gonzalez. Did you really want Alex Gonzalez?

 

...unless of course there were alternatives that you knew of that KW did not

[Steve9347]

The Gold Glove Award is a joke.

 

However, Uribe was far from a "Gold Glove-calibre" shortstop last season...

[Harry Chappas]

Perhaps you missed the part where they make $20 mill a year and up (except Tejada of course, who is just involved in steroid rumors all the time), and the fact that none of them are even close to Uribe defensively.

 

And if you are actually going to use gold gloves to indicate how good a player is defensively, then you've lost your mind. I use the term "gold-glove caliber" because when used, people instantly equate it with good defense. Derek Jeter isn't half the defensive SS Uribe is.

 

The only real alternative to Uribe this offseason was a similar player in Alex Gonzalez. Did you really want Alex Gonzalez?

 

...unless of course there were alternatives that you knew of that KW did not

 

The strategy was to stockpile pitching. An alternative could have been to move Garcia or McCarthy for a younger shortstop instead of the extra pitchers in the deals. My thoughts are Ozuna and Cintron can play short and be more productive hitters while dropping off in fielding.

 

Ozuna is a shortstop by trade.

[witesoxfan]

The strategy was to stockpile pitching. An alternative could have been to move Garcia or McCarthy for a younger shortstop instead of the extra pitchers in the deals. My thoughts are Ozuna and Cintron can play short and be more productive hitters while dropping off in fielding.

 

Ozuna is a shortstop by trade.

 

except they wouldn't be more productive hitters. Cintron had a .703 OPS last year compared to Uribe's .698, and that was with Uribe drawing 13 walks all year. You also have to realize that Ozuna had 520 career PAs and 31 career XBHs. You can't rely strictly upon singles hitters, which is exactly what Cintron and Ozuna are.

 

To go along with that, the drop off in fielding would be significantly more than you may realize. Also, a huge point to note is that if Cintron and Ozuna are platooning, either you are depending upon a rookie to come in, or you are expecting KW to make a trade halfway through ST to find a platoon partner for Scott Podsednik/Darin Erstad in LF.

 

Uribe's not a problem on this team. Podsednik getting paid more than half of what an underappreciated player in Uribe is making is a problem.

[knightni]

The Gold Glove Award is a joke.

 

However, Uribe was far from a "Gold Glove-calibre" shortstop last season...

Or even "caliber" for our American readers.

[jasonxctf]

Did I miss Juan Uribe's Gold Glove presentation?

Must have been on the same day he was near that murder.

Anyways, yes, I don't appreciate guys like A-Rod, Jeter, Tejada. They never hit the ball past the pitcher. Of course Uribe actually has to make contact to get it past the pitcher.

 

 

come on now... juan pops it up in foul ground at least to the 1st or 3rd base bag.

 

[Harry Chappas]

except they wouldn't be more productive hitters. Cintron had a .703 OPS last year compared to Uribe's .698, and that was with Uribe drawing 13 walks all year. You also have to realize that Ozuna had 520 career PAs and 31 career XBHs. You can't rely strictly upon singles hitters, which is exactly what Cintron and Ozuna are.

 

To go along with that, the drop off in fielding would be significantly more than you may realize. Also, a huge point to note is that if Cintron and Ozuna are platooning, either you are depending upon a rookie to come in, or you are expecting KW to make a trade halfway through ST to find a platoon partner for Scott Podsednik/Darin Erstad in LF.

 

Uribe's not a problem on this team. Podsednik getting paid more than half of what an underappreciated player in Uribe is making is a problem.

 

I still do not see a very clear indication that Uribe's problem will be cleared up and put behind him before the start of the season. My point was not stated as clearly as it should have. Uribe is the best option. Should he not be available Ozuna and Cintron are better options while obtaining the pitching as oppossed to getting a young SS and not have a spot for him should Uribe turn it around.

[witesoxfan]

I still do not see a very clear indication that Uribe's problem will be cleared up and put behind him before the start of the season. My point was not stated as clearly as it should have. Uribe is the best option. Should he not be available Ozuna and Cintron are better options while obtaining the pitching as oppossed to getting a young SS and not have a spot for him should Uribe turn it around.

 

I actually don't agree with that either. Erick Aybar from the Angels can probably be acquired for a pitcher like Gio, or something of the ilk, and he'd be a better option than Cintron or Ozuna simply because he'll likely be better offensively than those two will be.

 

Personally though, I don't see any way that Uribe's mess isn't cleared up. As I recall, the farmer didn't even show up to a court date, so this should (re: should) get cleared up soon.