Dick Allen Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:58 PM) LOL. You are quoting Spring Training numbers. As I said, its time to pick up the pace. With the exception of Contreras the 4 others in the supposed White Sox rotation are getting hammered. If they go through another 2 weeks of this, it should be cause for concern. It certainly has gotten Don Cooper worked up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:59 PM) Rosenthal is citing PHILADELPHIA sources. I don't understand your inability to digest this information. It's almost as if you can't stand the thought. Hell, even with the evidence staring you in the face you can't admit that Williams clearly didn't receive all that he could have for Garcia. It's this simple..... How can you interpret it any differently than Williams not asking for the best possible package? What if KW called up earlier in the offseason and talked only to Gillick and asked for the moon, was quickly rejected and went on his way. You provide no proof. You can keep throwing the same line in my face, but until it offers some proof, I don't know what you hope to prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Yahell is showing the Sox are leading in the 8th 11 - 8.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How do you know that wasn't the best available package? When Ken Rosenthal is quoting MLB Executives, I'm going to take his word for it. Rosenthal was on top of everything this offseason. I believe Jayson Stark quoted executives for not beliving the Sox couldn't get more. The day he traded Freddy, Schmidt, Lilly, and Meche all signed deals. We traded a our second best starter (behind Contreras) last year, who was coming off a phenomenal September after using a new pitch (similar to Loaiza in 2002) for a small, former Sox farm hand and a guy who flopped in both AAA and the NL last year with one option left. 2007 Garcia + two compensation picks > Gonzalez and Floyd. Stupid trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:58 PM) LOL. You are quoting Spring Training numbers. I'm sure he has plenty of sources. I'm sure he's been right plenty of times. But that doesn't change what I said. It's not proof at all. Alright, I'm convinced you have to be a plant within the White Sox organization, Williams himself, or Reinsdorf to be this thick headed. This is exactly your game. Without Williams himself admitting the Garcia package wasn't the best possible, you'll never believe it. And since he'll never say it, you never have to admit that perhaps Williams didn't perform his job correctly. Sweet deal. Edited March 13, 2007 by Flash Tizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:01 PM) As I said, its time to pick up the pace. With the exception of Contreras the 4 others in the supposed White Sox rotation are getting hammered. If they go through another 2 weeks of this, it should be cause for concern. It certainly has gotten Don Cooper worked up a bit. Did you see some of hte 05 numbers that were posted the other day? ST numbers or performance have absolutely ZERO correlation with the regular season. Just ask Boone Logan, Brian Anderson, Tadahito Iguchi, Bobby Jenks, Jermaine Dye, among many many others, whether good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:01 PM) Looks like John Danks has pushed was up to first place in the race. I'd like to see Danks start and go 5 innings, with Floyd getting a different start and going 5 innings. Looks like Danks also picked up the strikeout pace w/ 3 K's today. They both have to face guys that will be on major league rosters, but thats easier said than done. I think they should both be in Charlotte, if either makes it to Chicago on April 2, its almost a lock they will be a Charlotte resident at some point in 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How long before the rumors start up about the Sox making a run at Garcia when he's a free agent? If Philly is out of it (doubt it) or they still have six starters lying around, I could see the Sox making a move for Garcia in June. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:02 PM) When Ken Rosenthal is quoting MLB Executives, I'm going to take his word for it. Rosenthal was on top of everything this offseason. I believe Jayson Stark quoted executives for not beliving the Sox couldn't get more. The day he traded Freddy, Schmidt, Lilly, and Meche all signed deals. We traded a our second best starter (behind Contreras) last year, who was coming off a phenomenal September after using a new pitch (similar to Loaiza in 2002) for a small, former Sox farm hand and a guy who flopped in both AAA and the NL last year with one option left. 2007 Garcia + two compensation picks > Gonzalez and Floyd. Stupid trade. Many people thought Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton was a stupid trade. COnsidering none of the pitchers involved have thrown a pitch for their new teams, you might be jumping the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:02 PM) When Ken Rosenthal is quoting MLB Executives, I'm going to take his word for it. Rosenthal was on top of everything this offseason. I believe Jayson Stark quoted executives for not beliving the Sox couldn't get more. The day he traded Freddy, Schmidt, Lilly, and Meche all signed deals. We traded a our second best starter (behind Contreras) last year, who was coming off a phenomenal September after using a new pitch (similar to Loaiza in 2002) for a small, former Sox farm hand and a guy who flopped in both AAA and the NL last year with one option left. 2007 Garcia + two compensation picks > Gonzalez and Floyd. Stupid trade. Exactly. Everyone in god's green earth knew we were getting rid of Freddy. We did rush a trade to get him out of here and I was surprised that KW wasn't more patient. Alot of horrible pitchers got big deals this off-season and even Peter Gammons himself said that Freddy was the best available pitcher through trade even when Zito was a FA. Even though I don't take Peter seriously, he was right about getting a bargain even if it was one year in a pitcher who has been solid for 5+ seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:03 PM) Did you see some of hte 05 numbers that were posted the other day? ST numbers or performance have absolutely ZERO correlation with the regular season. Just ask Boone Logan, Brian Anderson, Tadahito Iguchi, Bobby Jenks, Jermaine Dye, among many many others, whether good or bad. Right. All their ERAs were over 10.00 in 2005? That's like the argument people were having with me last year when Politte was getting lit up in spring training. Oh he was bad in spring training in 2005. So what. There is going to be a time when guys are bad in spring training and then are bad in the regular season. These guys are getting crushed. Its time to pick up the pace. Hopefully they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:04 PM) They both have to face guys that will be on major league rosters, but thats easier said than done. I think they should both be in Charlotte, if either makes it to Chicago on April 2, its almost a lock they will be a Charlotte resident at some point in 2007. How so? Just because it would be their first full year in the majors doesn't mean automatic-faliure. What if Danks becomes the ROY? It is entirely possible. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see them both make it, Danks as the 5th starter and Floyd as a reliever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Many people thought Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton was a stupid trade. COnsidering none of the pitchers involved have thrown a pitch for their new teams, you might be jumping the gun. Who thought that was a stupid trade? We traded a guy out of options for another guy without any options. It was a low risk trade. Are you honestly trying to compare Garcia to Borchard? We didn't need another OF coming into 2006. We need another SP going into 2007, and Floyd isn't the person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:05 PM) Many people thought Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton was a stupid trade. COnsidering none of the pitchers involved have thrown a pitch for their new teams, you might be jumping the gun. Whoa, Whoa Whoa, that's WAAAAY different than this trade buddy. Why are you comparing Two first round bust who both had nothing to lose and one was a hitter and one was a pitcher over this trade, this year with all pitchers who we have a solid starter in his walk year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:05 PM) Many people thought Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton was a stupid trade. COnsidering none of the pitchers involved have thrown a pitch for their new teams, you might be jumping the gun. Who? Joe Borchard was one of the most hated players in Soxtalk history in terms of playing ability. That was a trade of 2 guys with no options who weren't going to make their teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:04 PM) If Philly is out of it (doubt it) or they still have six starters lying around, I could see the Sox making a move for Garcia in June. I doubt it. The organization seemed less then thrilled about his preformance last season and how he came into ST out of shape, and wanted no part of him anymore. Well, that is what it seemed to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 LOL. I'm glad at least two other people are thinking on the same page as me. The Sox had no use for Borchard. The Sox could use Garcia right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:08 PM) Who thought that was a stupid trade? There were some on this board (even the smartest posters) that thought it was a bad trade. Alot were LTP fans. Luckally, I never liked Borchard and I was glad we got Thornton and was on the wait and see mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:08 PM) How so? Just because it would be their first full year in the majors doesn't mean automatic-faliure. What if Danks becomes the ROY? It is entirely possible. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see them both make it, Danks as the 5th starter and Floyd as a reliever. When is the last time a White Sox rookie starting pitcher made it an entire season on the major league roster? Danks is thought to be a little green by most baseball people. Floyd has just been a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:10 PM) LOL. I'm glad at least two other people are thinking on the same page as me. The Sox had no use for Borchard. The Sox could use Garcia right now. How do you know that either Danks or Floyd won't outperform Garcia this year. You are speaking in a lot of absolutes considering nobody has thrown a pitch this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:02 PM) When Ken Rosenthal is quoting MLB Executives, I'm going to take his word for it. Rosenthal was on top of everything this offseason. I believe Jayson Stark quoted executives for not beliving the Sox couldn't get more. The day he traded Freddy, Schmidt, Lilly, and Meche all signed deals. We traded a our second best starter (behind Contreras) last year, who was coming off a phenomenal September after using a new pitch (similar to Loaiza in 2002) for a small, former Sox farm hand and a guy who flopped in both AAA and the NL last year with one option left. 2007 Garcia + two compensation picks > Gonzalez and Floyd. Stupid trade. In future seasons, if Garland, Vazquez, Contreras are to be dealt, we simply can't have deals resembling the Garcia trade. I'll also argue the McCarthy deal was rather ridiculous considering the pieces we picked up. How much better is Danks/Massett than Hirsh/Bucholz? The difference in those packages certainly doesn't equal the large disparity, both in talent and service time left to the team, that Jennings and McCarthy present. And as much as you're tired of hearing this, unless our drafting practices improve, I'll continue to hold high expectations for the packages Williams receives for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:08 PM) Who thought that was a stupid trade? We traded a guy out of options for another guy without any options. It was a low risk trade. Are you honestly trying to compare Garcia to Borchard? We didn't need another OF coming into 2006. We need another SP going into 2007, and Floyd isn't the person. My point is that KW has shown that he can get value for where there is little value. What if Freddy bombs this year and Gio and Floyd go on to solid or better careers. You can't say it's a bad trade right now. You can say you think it WILL be a bad trade, but that doesn't make it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:11 PM) How do you know that either Danks or Floyd won't outperform Garcia this year. You are speaking in a lot of absolutes considering nobody has thrown a pitch this season. Maybe becase Garcia is a veteran and we know what we'll probably get outta him whereas Danks is a rookie who wasn't that impressive in his short stint in AAA last season and Floyd was in the NL gettin rocked. I will personally eat a ton of crow if Danks or Floyd can out pitch Freddy this entire season and i'm not just talking about one day where Freddy might have been bad whereas one of them might have been good. The ENTIRE season. And just to add Freddy is pitching in the NL and Danks or Floyd is pitching in the tough AL? I'll get my check book ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:11 PM) How do you know that either Danks or Floyd won't outperform Garcia this year. You are speaking in a lot of absolutes considering nobody has thrown a pitch this season. because Garcia has been one of the most consistent pitchers of the last 5 years and... well... i just dont think either Danks or Floyd will match that. Either of them logging 200+ innings = impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 QUOTE(Reddy @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:17 PM) because Garcia has been one of the most consistent pitchers of the last 5 years and... well... i just dont think either Danks or Floyd will match that. Either of them logging 200+ innings = impossible That doesn't tell me how you KNOW that Freddy will outperform them. You told me why you THINK Freddy will outperform them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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