Question:

 

What's the worst opening day start by a White Sox pitcher?

 

Jose's 1 IP 7 hits 7 ER 1 BB 1 K has got be top 3 at least

I always figured that Jack Mcdowells HOME OPENER start in 1991 was the worst when the sox lost 16-0 to the Tigers.

 

Jacks Line:

2.2 IP

5 H

6 R

6 ER

3 BB

 

Unbelievably, Jose has that horrible outing beat.

I always figured that Jack Mcdowells HOME OPENER start in 1991 was the worst when the sox lost 16-0 to the Tigers.

 

Jacks Line:

2.2 IP

5 H

6 R

6 ER

3 BB

 

Unbelievably, Jose has that horrible outing beat.

Yeah, Contreras did pretty much embarrass himself and instantly remove any mention of "ace" from his title.

 

Aces don't do this. Aces don't give up 7 earned runs in 1 inning.

 

And I don't care if Masset technically surrendered two inherited runs, either. Far as I'm concerned, the way the Indians were hitting Count it was inevitable the runs would have scored.

Edited April 3, 200718 yr by Flash Tizzle

Yeah, Contreras did pretty much embarrass himself and instantly remove any mention of "ace" from his title.

 

Aces don't do this. Aces don't give up 7 earned runs in 1 inning.

 

And I don't care if Masset technically surrendered two inherited runs, either. Far as I'm concerned, the way the Indians were hitting Count it was inevitable the runs would have scored.

i dont think u can say he cant be an ace because he sucked today. i know carpenters line wasnt as bad, but he gave up 5 er-and he is an ace.

QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ Apr 2, 2007 -> 08:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i dont think u can say he cant be an ace because he sucked today. i know carpenters line wasnt as bad, but he gave up 5 er-and he is an ace.

Santana isn't looking sharp tonight either.

i dont think u can say he cant be an ace because he sucked today. i know carpenters line wasnt as bad, but he gave up 5 er-and he is an ace.

I should add onto that -- healthy "aces" don't give up 7earned runs in one inning.

 

I'm not entirely sure he's healthy.

i dont think u can say he cant be an ace because he sucked today. i know carpenters line wasnt as bad, but he gave up 5 er-and he is an ace.

Yes, but Jose was never an ace in the first place.

Santana and Carpenter both got more than 3 outs

Yes, but Jose was never an ace in the first place.

yea i guess, but he did have that one stretch were he won 17 in a row. to me there are only about 3 aces. santana, halladay and carpenter:true aces. maybe webb

Yes, but Jose was never an ace in the first place.

Second half of 2005?

 

First half of 2006?

 

Offhand, I believe if you add up those two halves his record would be something ridiculous like 26-3.

 

He was our staff ace, and definitely one of the top five pitchers in baseball over the period until his health problems emerged.

 

EDIT: Actually numbers during the time period were: 212.2IP, 3.18ERA, 20-2.

 

Ace.

Edited April 3, 200718 yr by Flash Tizzle

A solitary season of good numbers compiled from two different calendar years does not an ace make. Or something.

Second half of 2005?

 

First half of 2006?

 

Offhand, I believe if you add up those two halves his record would be something ridiculous like 26-3.

 

He was our staff ace, and definitely one of the top five pitchers in baseball over the period until his health problems emerged.

 

EDIT: Actually numbers during the time period were: 212.2IP, 3.18ERA, 20-2.

 

Ace.

To be a staff ace, you have to be a great pitcher for a prolonged period of time. Two halves of two seasons != ace in my opinion.

Edited April 3, 200718 yr by Felix

Does it really even frickin matter? I mean seriously.

I think we can all agree that it was his new facial hair that messed his game up.

Does it really even frickin matter? I mean seriously.

 

Nope.

Does it really even frickin matter? I mean seriously.

 

Amen. This whole ace stuff is so freaking dumb. The only thing we can state is that after one start, it looks more like post ASB Contreras than pre ASB.

JCINAA time??

 

Stupid argument. There's no true definition of an ace anyways. All that matters is he was absolutely incredible for us for a while, has had injury problems, and will hopefully get back to pitching well.

To be a staff ace, you have to be a great pitcher for a prolonged period of time. Two halves of two seasons != ace in my opinion.

So, considering the statistics I've provided, would you be willing to recognize Contreras as one of the top five pitchers in baseball from Post ASB 2005 to about July 2006 -- including the playoffs?

 

I don't know how you couldn't. I'm more willing to combine the two halves with Contreras considering he seemingly began right in 2006 where he ended in October of the previous season.

 

Argue about the meaning of "ace" or "staff ace" if you wish, but I believe Contreras was our best pitcher during this period. The one you'd expect to halt a losing streak and give your ballclub an opportunity to win every start.

Edited April 3, 200718 yr by Flash Tizzle

For the record:

 

Santana: 6 IP, 7 H, 4 Runs

 

Bedard: 5 IP, 10 H, 6 Runs

 

Schilling: 4 IP, 8 H, 5 Runs

 

Pavano: 4.1 IP, 6 H, 5 Runs

 

Kazmir: 5 IP, 6 H, 5 Runs

 

Lowe: 4 IP, 8 H, 6 Runs

 

Zambrano: 5 IP, 6 H, 5 Runs

So, considering the statistics I've provided, would you be willing to recognize Contreras as one of the top five pitchers in baseball from Post ASB 2005 to about July 2006 -- including the playoffs?

 

I don't know how you couldn't. I'm more willing to combine the two halves with Contreras considering he seemingly began right in 2006 where he ended in October of the previous season.

 

Argue about the meaning of "ace" or "staff ace" if you wish, but I believe Contreras was our ace during this period.

 

Yes, he absolutely was one of the top 5 pitchers during that time.

For the record:

 

Santana: 6 IP, 7 H, 4 Runs

 

Bedard: 5 IP, 10 H, 6 Runs

 

Schilling: 4 IP, 8 H, 5 Runs

 

Pavano: 4.1 IP, 6 H, 5 Runs

 

Kazmir: 5 IP, 6 H, 5 Runs

 

Lowe: 4 IP, 8 H, 6 Runs

 

Zambrano: 5 IP, 6 H, 5 Runs

and, like i mentioned, carpenter:5er, in 5ip i believe.

(ha, brad lidge blew a save already)

His stuff was fine but his release was a little off, causing the control issues IMO. That is a sign the lower back is still a problem (also IMO), which is a big problem. I'm not too worried overall since he sabotaged the game by himself, nobody else looked awful or anything (not even Masset, just was a bit nervous).

His stuff was fine but his release was a little off, causing the control issues IMO. That is a sign the lower back is still a problem (also IMO), which is a big problem. I'm not too worried overall since he sabotaged the game by himself, nobody else looked awful or anything (not even Masset, just was a bit nervous).

When the Cell gun and the Comcast gun have Jose clocked in the high 80's and low 90's, his stuff is not fine.

 

He didn't get a single fastball past a hitter today, that's a pretty clear indication of s*** stuff to me.

When the Cell gun and the Comcast gun have Jose clocked in the high 80's and low 90's, his stuff is not fine.

 

He didn't get a single fastball past a hitter today, that's a pretty clear indication of s*** stuff to me.

 

I didn't see him throw a single fastball that wasn't either a foot out of the zone or right down the middle. Jose's whole game is based on arm angles and location, and both of them were off today, which is why the lower back idea came into my mind. If you watched Jose last year, you'd know his fastball altered between the high 80's and low 90's almost all year (I do, I charted a few of his games even early in the year, during the streak). He simply had no location of anything, which means he either thought he was on the Yankees again, had one epic bad day, or isn't healthy.

I didn't see him throw a single fastball that wasn't either a foot out of the zone or right down the middle. Jose's whole game is based on arm angles and location, and both of them were off today, which is why the lower back idea came into my mind. If you watched Jose last year, you'd know his fastball altered between the high 80's and low 90's almost all year (I do, I charted a few of his games even early in the year, during the streak). He simply had no location of anything, which means he either thought he was on the Yankees again, had one epic bad day, or isn't healthy.

I just went back and checked a few games from the beginning of last season (pre injury). The best indicator was the April 29th game @ Anaheim, the FSN West gun had him throwing 94-95 and Kelvim Escobar at 91-92. So yeah before Contreras went on the DL at the start of May last season he was throwing in the mid 90's and most of those were coming from the dropped down arm slot. I don't remember him topping 93 today, a Contreras sitting at 89-90 MPH is not going to fool anyone no matter what angles he's throwing at you.

 

I'm just hoping he had some bad seafood before the game today.