Soxtalk Top Ten Prospect List

[Heads22]

I'm wondering how in the hell Jason did a Top 50 prospect list a few years ago.

[ptatc]

FYI - I asked Kevin Goldstein about Poreda today...

 

wsgdf83 (Naperthrill): I've heard bad things about Poreda's delivery - that he's an injury waiting to happen. Have you heard the same?

 

Kevin Goldstein: Not really. It's hardly perfect, but it's not end of the world violent or anything. The more legitimate concern is wether or not his secondary stuff will come -- it's still a pretty special arm.

 

I don't necessarily think he's an injury waiting to happen. I think Bureaus point was that he doesn't think he will project to be an effective major league pitcher. I could be wrong but I thought that was his point. I haven't seen him throw in a game so I can't comment on it from an injury perspective.

[Gregory Pratt]

 

Not Randy Johnson?!

[iamshack]

 

 

Let me ask you something Bureau....your opinion...and those of other scouts...I assume that there is room for differences of opinion? I'm just guessing that the majority of White Sox scouts disagree with your assessment given where they drafted Poreda?

 

Now I am in no position personally to question your opinion, but I've heard from a pretty solid source that there are plenty of scouts that "love" Poreda. You see absolutely no room for that opinion/optimism?

[Marky Mark]

Let me ask you something Bureau....your opinion...and those of other scouts...I assume that there is room for differences of opinion? I'm just guessing that the majority of White Sox scouts disagree with your assessment given where they drafted Poreda?

 

Now I am in no position personally to question your opinion, but I've heard from a pretty solid source that there are plenty of scouts that "love" Poreda. You see absolutely no room for that opinion/optimism?

 

 

The White Sox director of scouting was fired over the Poreda pick so obviously not everyone is on the same page. I'm guessing the people who love Poreda scout the fact that he threw down a 1.17 ERA with a 9+ k/9 ratio and therefore love him, but don't recognize the same things a professional scout sees when they have the player in their own system and realize his limitations.

[iamshack]

The White Sox director of scouting was fired over the Poreda pick so obviously not everyone is on the same page. I'm guessing the people who love Poreda scout the fact that he threw down a 1.17 ERA with a 9+ k/9 ratio and therefore love him, but don't recognize the same things a professional scout sees when they have the player in their own system and realize his limitations.

 

Well, back up a second...do we really believe that no one other than the director of scouting has a say in who the organization's #1 draft pick is? I have to believe there are other parties involved in that determination.

 

Secondly, I don't think Shaeffer was fired over the Poreda pick, but rather, the general state of the farm system combined with the building pressure for someone to be "the fall guy."

 

Third, as I said earlier, I've been given a completely opposite scouting report by what I consider a pretty solid source- one that I know has constant contact with major league scouts, including some from the Angels organization, which is one of the top systems in baseball. Just asking if there is room for differences of opinion here...

[Marky Mark]

Well, back up a second...do we really believe that no one other than the director of scouting has a say in who the organization's #1 draft pick is? I have to believe there are other parties involved in that determination.

 

Secondly, I don't think Shaeffer was fired over the Poreda pick, but rather, the general state of the farm system combined with the building pressure for someone to be "the fall guy."

 

Third, as I said earlier, I've been given a completely opposite scouting report by what I consider a pretty solid source- one that I know has constant contact with major league scouts, including some from the Angels organization, which is one of the top systems in baseball. Just asking if there is room for differences of opinion here...

 

 

Oh gosh I'm sure there was much more than just Shaeffer involved in Poreda's draft and yeah I'm sure he was canned for more than just Poreda, that being more of the final straw is what I figured. I just mentioned him and his case to say that not everyone thinks alike.

 

I guess I'll wait to let Bureau answer this question though, I don't really know what I'm talking about.

Edited January 12, 2008 by Markbilliards

[scenario]

Notes below about one of our front office guys...

 

I think it's a given he would have been involved in the decision to draft Poreda, isn't it?

 

And if so, it pretty much undermines the "clueless Sox scouts who picked Poreda because they didn't understand pitching mechanics" theory, doesn't it?

 

If not, someone please explain.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Larry Monroe is in his 34th year with the White Sox as a player, scout, minor-league instructor, coach, special assistant to the general manager, club executive and major-league scout. In his current position as advisor to the baseball department, Monroe enhances the club's scouting efforts during the season, and his experience allows him to advise the baseball department on potential player moves.

 

A former right-hander with the White Sox, Monroe has served in a variety of capacities with the club, including vice president of scouting and minor league operations (1990-94) and vice president of free agent and major league scouting (1994-2006).

 

In December 2003, Monroe's book, "Best-Kept Secrets of Major League Pitching", was published by Coaches Choice. The book, filled with tips, drills and photographs illustrating proper pitching mechanics, is intended to help teach coaches, parents and pitchers of any age the keys to avoiding injuries and maximizing their personal potential.

Edited January 12, 2008 by scenario

[hitlesswonder]

Oh gosh I'm sure there was much more than just Shaeffer involved in Poreda's draft and yeah I'm sure he was canned for more than just Poreda, that being more of the final straw is what I figured. I just mentioned him and his case to say that not everyone thinks alike.

 

I guess I'll wait to let Bureau answer this question though, I don't really know what I'm talking about.

 

I think the Sox fired the West Coast scout responsible for recommending Poreda as draft pick. Bureau mentioned that in a previous post I believe.

In a related note, I also read elsewhere that the Sox scout who looked at the Rangers high minors (read Danks & Masset) is no longer scouting for the Sox either.

 

 

 

[scenario]

I think the Sox fired the West Coast scout responsible for recommending Poreda as draft pick. Bureau mentioned that in a previous post I believe.

In a related note, I also read elsewhere that the Sox scout who looked at the Rangers high minors (read Danks & Masset) is no longer scouting for the Sox either.

 

Most firings like this are 'political', not performance-based. When KW replaced Duane Schaffer, it became inevitable that some of Schaffer's hand-picked guys would be sent packing too. It doesn't mean that somebody was fired for recommending a player.

[3E8]

Shouldn't the people who fired the West Coast scouts over this pick be somewhat responsible as well? Did the organization blindly take the Poreda recommendation and that's it? Seems like the top 50-100 potential draftees should be combed over carefully by most/all members of the scouting/managing departments so we can red flag pitchers with concerning flaws such as 'horrible mechanics' and 'no breaking ball'. The first draft pick is too important to waste.

[YASNY]

Shouldn't the people who fired the West Coast scouts over this pick be somewhat responsible as well? Did the organization blindly take the Poreda recommendation and that's it? Seems like the top 50-100 potential draftees should be combed over carefully by most/all members of the scouting/managing departments so we can red flag pitchers with concerning flaws such as 'horrible mechanics' and 'no breaking ball'. The first draft pick is too important to waste.

 

s*** rolls downhill.

[YASNY]

 

 

LOL ... That "No comment" says a lot, but leaves a lot to the imagination too.

[iamshack]

Shouldn't the people who fired the West Coast scouts over this pick be somewhat responsible as well? Did the organization blindly take the Poreda recommendation and that's it? Seems like the top 50-100 potential draftees should be combed over carefully by most/all members of the scouting/managing departments so we can red flag pitchers with concerning flaws such as 'horrible mechanics' and 'no breaking ball'. The first draft pick is too important to waste.

 

I have to agree. This is a Major League Baseball organization. Are you telling me there are guys on this forum who know more about the top 100 potential draftees than everyone else in the organization except the local scouts who happen to be covering their group of kids?

 

That makes me feel a lot better....*gulp*

[scenario]

 

 

You mean like Duane Schaffer? They trusted him with the entire draft and then fired him quickly afterwards, didn't they? And his firing was obviously political... a conflict of styles and philosophies between DS and KW who have been knocking heads ever since Kenny was hired. Schaffer was here for 35 years. If performance was the main cause of concern he would have been fired before the draft. And when you replace the head guy just after the draft for political reasons, and then replace a few of his handpicked guys soon after, you really don't have to look too far for reasons.

 

What I think would clear up alot of misconceptions is a description of the draft process... how many people are involved in the selection of picks... their roles... how draft selections actually go down... who makes the final call, etc. I've seen descriptions of it for other organizations. And I'm having a real hard time imagining the Sox are much different.

 

Are you suggesting the Sox just handed the responsibility for the #1 pick to a scout and cross-checker... and didn't do thorough due diligence on the player until AFTER the draft pick was made? If so, I would be absolutely stunned. THAT would be the definition of irresponsible management and just-cause to clear out the front office. NO successful businesses run that way. And Jerry Reinsdorf is an extremely successful businessman who would never tolerate a management team running that way.

 

So can anyone clarify or verify how it really happens here? I'm sure it's not double-secret probation type info.

Edited May 23, 2008 by knightni

[maggsmaggs]

Bureau: Have you heard about the possibilities for the Sox's first round pick this year? Or is it basically, the top guys in the draft? Anybody the organization has already crossed off the list for various reasons? Or too early to tell since all these guys have seasons to play?

[Gene Honda Civic]

 

Exactly... Shaffer was castrated at this time last year. The Sox held organizational meetings in AZ in advance of ST, during which Kenny blasted the amateur scouting staff and announced Laumann and Wilder as supposedly getting (increased) control of the draft.

[Marky Mark]

Yeah I think a lot of people are fearing a Jordan Danks first round pick.

[DBAHO]

On Brewerfan.net they currently have Melville rated at #4, here's what they say about him;

 

Melville is the type of pitcher that makes his craft look so incredibly easy, and also makes hit hard to believe that he is a high school senior. His success is predicated off of his fastball, not only how hard he throws it, but how well he spots it. That pitch sits in the low-90s and has touched the 95-96 range on occasion. He has a very good curveball that is a swing and miss pitch when he is ahead of the count, and he also throws a solid changeup to keep hitters off balance. He throws all three pitches for strikes, and commands the strike zone extremely well. With a tall and athletic body, he also stars on the field as a hitter, and profiles in a similar fashion to the Brewers Yovani Gallardo for his combination of stuff, polish and athleticism, and would a better fit in the National League where his bat would surprise some people. He has committed to play for North Carolina, and as tough as it is to pry UNC recruits away from school, he should be drafted high enough where that doesn’t even become an issue.

 

The #8 rated prospect, Gerrit Cole;

 

Blessed with a lightning quick arm, Cole has the perfect pitcher’s proportions making him one of the most exciting pitching prospects to watch through next spring. His fastball has touched the upper 90s in the past, and easily sits in the low-90s. His heater is especially tough to hit in that it shows very good, natural late life, and his potentially nasty yet currently inconsistent slider gives him a powerful arsenal that should also induce a lot of weak contact on the infield. While he is a very good athlete with a smooth windup and overall delivery, there is some effort to his arm action, as he would do his long-range career a favor by shoring up his mechanics. He has committed to play for UCLA, and could easily be taken among the top three to five picks next June.

 

And also, at #9, SS Tim Beckham;

 

Beckham is the type of athlete that makes everything he does look easy. He glides to balls hit deep in the hole to either side of him, and runs the bases gracefully, stretching singles into doubles and doubles into triples. He has good arm strength, soft hands and good instincts that should allow him to star at shortstop for years to come. While his defense draws more raves that his bat, he has improved at the plate over the last year and is now considered a legitimate threat, as he stings the ball to all parts of the field and has also shown the ability to hit the ball out as his body continues to mature and add strength. Shortstops with Beckham’s ability don’t come around very often, as he’s sure to go early. He was named the MVP of the Aflac All-American Classic going 1-3 with a triple and 3 RBI, 2 thanks to a pair of sac flies in key situations.

[maggsmaggs]

I think Aaron Crow will be a big possibility for the Sox, if he slips. Fits Bureau's bill of a midwestern pitcher (from Kansas, pitches at Mizzou.) He is a fast riser who went from solid draft talent to top prospect type (Sox tend to draft high risers.) I would look for Crow to be the pick, if he is available, but he might go top 5.

[SoxAce]

The more I read about Meyer (RHP, great stuff) Hicks, (CF, 5 tool talent) and Martinez (SS/3B great potential) the more I like.

[Cerbaho-WG]

BA Top 10 is up:

 

1. Aaron Poreda, rhp

2. Lance Broadway, rhp

3. Jack Egbert, rhp

4. Jose Martinez, of

5. Chris Getz, 2b

6. John Ely, rhp

7. Juan Silverio, ss

8. John Shelby Jr., of

9. Adam Russell, rhp

10. Kyle McCulloch, rhp

 

Best Hitter for Average Chris Getz

Best Power Hitter Brandon Allen

Best Strike-Zone Discipline Chris Getz

Fastest Baserunner Paulo Orlando

Best Athlete Lyndon Estill

Best Fastball Aaron Poreda

Best Curveball Lance Broadway

Best Slider Kanekoa Texeira

Best Changeup Lance Broadway

Best Control Jack Egbert

Best Defensive Catcher Donny Lucy

Best Defensive Infielder Robert Valido

Best Infield Arm Juan Silverio

Best Defensive Outfielder Paulo Orlando

Best Outfield Arm Jose Martinez

[NorthSideSox72]

BA Top 10 is up:

 

1. Aaron Poreda, rhp

2. Lance Broadway, rhp

3. Jack Egbert, rhp

4. Jose Martinez, of

5. Chris Getz, 2b

6. John Ely, rhp

7. Juan Silverio, ss

8. John Shelby Jr., of

9. Adam Russell, rhp

10. Kyle McCulloch, rhp

 

Best Hitter for Average Chris Getz

Best Power Hitter Brandon Allen

Best Strike-Zone Discipline Chris Getz

Fastest Baserunner Paulo Orlando

Best Athlete Lyndon Estill

Best Fastball Aaron Poreda

Best Curveball Lance Broadway

Best Slider Kanekoa Texeira

Best Changeup Lance Broadway

Best Control Jack Egbert

Best Defensive Catcher Donny Lucy

Best Defensive Infielder Robert Valido

Best Infield Arm Juan Silverio

Best Defensive Outfielder Paulo Orlando

Best Outfield Arm Jose Martinez

How is Miranda not in that Top 10?

 

And I have a really hard time putting a 16-year-old in the Top 10. I wonder how much BA actually knows about the kid.

 

[iamshack]

All I know is I really like the fact that BA mentioned Poreda was hitting 98 and touched 100 a few times...

[Vance Law]

Is anybody a subscriber and able to summarize anything interesting from the chat with Phil Rogers?