Sox off-season outlook

[Chisoxfn]

Brian Roberts?

I don't know if the Sox have the prospects to land him. A package centered around Fields/Broadway and someone else just isn't as enticing as it would have been a year ago.

[Kalapse]

So I guess everybody was REEEEEEEALLY happy with Thornton in the closers role when Bobby was out for a while. Hmmmm...I seem to recall most said he didn't have the "closers mentality"...which I agree with. Why even consider trading Bobby unless you're in total rebuild mode?

During Bobby's absence Matt Thornton got 1 save opportunity and converted it successfully, getting the one out necessary to record the save. Not a single time during Jenks' absence did Matt Thornton start the final inning of a ballgame in which the White Sox had the lead (the standard save situation). He pitched mainly in the 7th and 8th inning during that stretch including some work in the 9th of a tied ballgame. Hell Matt Thornton pitched in much bigger situations over the final month of the season than he did in Jenks' absence and kicked ass.

 

By my count there were only 5 save opportunities during Jenks' absence. Thornton, Dotel and Linebrink all recorded 1 save each and Linebrink blew 2 more.

 

If anyone came to the conclusion that Matt Thornton didn't have the "closer's mentality" during the 16 games Bobby Jenks missed in July (in which Matt Thornton had 1 save opportunity) then they're fooling themselves.

[ThunderBolt]

If anyone came to the conclusion that Matt Thornton didn't have the "closer's mentality" during the 16 games Bobby Jenks missed in July (in which Matt Thornton had 1 save opportunity) then they're fooling themselves.

I love Bobby, and i don't want to see him traded. That being said, if he was, Thorton as Closer and Poreda as set-up man makes an awful lot of sense

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

In looking at MLB trade rumors for the A's, they said the A's will be looking for power this offseason. Would they want Dye or Konerko? Get Duchscherer and Huston Street?

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/09/as-to-seek-more.html

Ryan Sweeney and Aaron Cunningham are veritable locks for the A's OF. Barton should start at 1B and Gonzalez in CF, but I guess those things could change. I think the A's will give those two every opportunity to start however. Cust will be the DH, so there's really no room IMO for a veteran that will definitely start over one of their young guys. Oakland will probably look fro another cheap one year power option like they did with Frank Thomas and Mike Sweeney this year.

 

If we want Duch or Street, Fields might be a great place to start. They have that Hanrahan guy or whatever that they got from the Tigers pencilled in, and he sucks. If the Sox sign a 2B, Oakland should be interested in Getz if Cardenas isn't ready. Getz seems like a Billy Beane type of player. Then there's Boone Logan, who could interest them. Beane loves to buy low on relievers with big arms. Getz + Fields + Logan I think might get us one of those guys, but that deal could easily backfire on us. If the Sox try to trade a package like that I'd like to see them first target someone with a better track record of both performance and health.

[caulfield12]

But aren't Poreda and Thornton essentially similar pitchers....with Poreda a tick or two slower with the FB?

 

Both of them have meh/so-so sliders and off-speed pitches. Something of a big game to go into season relying on Dotel and Linebrink again, but there's not much choice but to hold onto Scott coming off the last two months and maybe trading Dotel for a couple of AA/AAA relievers with electric but inconsistent stuff...or major league relievers in their first 3 seasons.

 

Somebody mentioned Villanueva from MIL as an example of one of these pitchers, as part of a possibly Hardy/Vazquez deal.

 

Maybe it makes more sense with Poreda in the rotation and Richard as the 5th starter? It all depends on how confident they are in Poreda sustaining velocity, not getting hammered when he gets behind in the count and how his stuff translates the second or third time through the line-up.

[ThunderBolt]

Maybe it makes more sense with Poreda in the rotation and Richard as the 5th starter? It all depends on how confident they are in Poreda sustaining velocity, not getting hammered when he gets behind in the count and how his stuff translates the second or third time through the line-up.

Are we talking about a rotation of Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Poreda, and Richard? Because that's four Lefties in a row matter where you spin it, and Ozzie usually likes to rotates righties/lefties so as to give hitters different looks.

[caulfield12]

No, the poster (I thought) wanted Poreda in bullpen with Thornton as closer (with Jenks traded)...at least I thought, maybe my brain's not functioning before 8 am here in Thailand.

 

I thought Poreda in the rotation and Richard as the 2nd lefty (Logan's spot) was a better choice, but only if Poreda's secondary pitches are good enough now to get through the line-up 2-3 times.

[Balta1701]

Are we talking about a rotation of Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Poreda, and Richard? Because that's four Lefties in a row matter where you spin it, and Ozzie usually likes to rotates righties/lefties so as to give hitters different looks.

Wow, a 4 lefty rotation to start the season. Man that'd be weird. Have we ever seen that before?

[caulfield12]

Are we talking about a rotation of Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Poreda, and Richard? Because that's four Lefties in a row matter where you spin it, and Ozzie usually likes to rotates righties/lefties so as to give hitters different looks.

 

 

"Maybe it makes more sense with Poreda in the rotation and Richard as the 5th starter?"

 

What I was trying to do, by asking that question, was argue on behalf of Poreda as the fifth starter and Clayton as loogy. Not four lefties in rotation.

[ThunderBolt]

Wow, a 4 lefty rotation to start the season. Man that'd be weird. Have we ever seen that before?

 

It's not a very common occurence, but it's not unheard of. The 2004 Royals tried it with Brian Anderson, Jeremy Affeldt, Darrell May and Jimmy Gobble. THe A's this year briefly had a five lefty rotation, while the Pirates had a four. It varies in sucess, but it's certainly an interesting idea.

[toasty]

During Bobby's absence Matt Thornton got 1 save opportunity and converted it successfully, getting the one out necessary to record the save. Not a single time during Jenks' absence did Matt Thornton start the final inning of a ballgame in which the White Sox had the lead (the standard save situation). He pitched mainly in the 7th and 8th inning during that stretch including some work in the 9th of a tied ballgame. Hell Matt Thornton pitched in much bigger situations over the final month of the season than he did in Jenks' absence and kicked ass.

 

By my count there were only 5 save opportunities during Jenks' absence. Thornton, Dotel and Linebrink all recorded 1 save each and Linebrink blew 2 more.

 

If anyone came to the conclusion that Matt Thornton didn't have the "closer's mentality" during the 16 games Bobby Jenks missed in July (in which Matt Thornton had 1 save opportunity) then they're fooling themselves.

 

 

i havent been around much, but i agree. in actuality, i see the time when bobby was out as one of ozzie's biggest flubs this year. linebrink should have been left as the setup guy, using thornton as the closer. everybody else could essentially keep in their roles, instead of moving everybody up a spot in the pen. that screwed the roles up so badly, and may have even helped contribute to linebrink's injury, which made the bullpen roles even more screwed up.

 

that being said, i know that we could a good trade for bobby, at least talent wise, but he should still be afordable, so i dont see it as much of an option to trade him at this point.

[beck72]

Ryan Sweeney and Aaron Cunningham are veritable locks for the A's OF. Barton should start at 1B and Gonzalez in CF, but I guess those things could change. I think the A's will give those two every opportunity to start however. Cust will be the DH, so there's really no room IMO for a veteran that will definitely start over one of their young guys. Oakland will probably look fro another cheap one year power option like they did with Frank Thomas and Mike Sweeney this year.

 

If we want Duch or Street, Fields might be a great place to start. They have that Hanrahan guy or whatever that they got from the Tigers pencilled in, and he sucks. If the Sox sign a 2B, Oakland should be interested in Getz if Cardenas isn't ready. Getz seems like a Billy Beane type of player. Then there's Boone Logan, who could interest them. Beane loves to buy low on relievers with big arms. Getz + Fields + Logan I think might get us one of those guys, but that deal could easily backfire on us. If the Sox try to trade a package like that I'd like to see them first target someone with a better track record of both performance and health.

 

I was just going by the link to the Contra Costa article where BB said he wanted power for the short and long term. It said that Beane didn't want to give up prospects. I inferred from that vets like Duch and Street would most likely be the bait. One or both would help the sox. I look at Street and see a Lidge type rebound for 2009.

 

Signing a FA really isn't smart for Beane, as he'd give up draft picks. It sounds like he's willing to take on some salary for the right bat. They've gone cheap for power bats and it hasn't worked out.

[ThunderBolt]

"Maybe it makes more sense with Poreda in the rotation and Richard as the 5th starter?"

 

What I was trying to do, by asking that question, was argue on behalf of Poreda as the fifth starter and Clayton as loogy. Not four lefties in rotation.

Ok, that makes then. I think if Poreda keeps refining his slider, and continues making progress on his change then him entering the rotation in a year or two is a very real possibility. And after what Richard showed in the playoffs this year I would not be averse to seeing him as a multi-innings guy in the bullpen

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Wow, a 4 lefty rotation to start the season. Man that'd be weird. Have we ever seen that before?

Around 1978 or so, we had Kravec, Baumgarten, Wortham and Trout.

 

Team sucked.

[BobDylan]

Not all that.

 

But probably:

Ramirez + Danks OR Floyd + Jenks + Fields

 

In which I'd promptly hang up on that GM.

[jenksycat]

I love Bobby, and i don't want to see him traded. That being said, if he was, Thorton as Closer and Poreda as set-up man makes an awful lot of sense

 

Why is Poreda a lock for "awesome setup man". Trading away one of the best closers in the game while he is under team control for years and makes

[ThunderBolt]

Why is Poreda a lock for "awesome setup man". Trading away one of the best closers in the game while he is under team control for years and makes

You’re being a bit confrontational for a guy who just quoted one of my posts saying I don’t want Jenks traded. I, too, think it’s a spectacularly stupid idea. That being said, I was saying simply that if this was the case (and I hope like hell it isn’t) That Poreda’s stuff (hard fastball, decent slider, change) makes him an ideal candidate for a set-up role if he fails to develop into a starter (though i believe he'll suceed). We see it all the time Thorton was a starter for the Mariners and that didn’t pan out. So what did he become? A set-up man. Samardjia a starter for the Cubs in the minors, but there are some concerns about his development and his pitches, so what does he become? A good set-up man. How about Bobby Jenks? For the Angels AA team he was a starter, but for us, we put him as a set-up for Hermanson until the guy’s back gave out. We see this all the time, and there are thousands of examples. But I don’t want to kill the point. I like Bobby Jenks, he’s our closer, he’s my closer, but In the case of a hypothetical where he’s no longer the closer. I was just assessing the possibilities, and just so you know, I love Nick Swisher.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Thunderbolt

[bighurt4life]

I look at Street and see a Lidge type rebound for 2009.

 

I don't think that him having a great rebound season is very likely for two reasons.

1. Lidge's problems were all mental, he just couldn't place his pitches where he wanted to and when he got behind in the count or let runners get on base he imploded. He still had nasty stuff the whole time

2. Street has actually lost a mile or two off of his fastball this season, for someone as young as he is that does not bode well for him. His avg. fastball this year was about 89mph, not enough to be a lights out closer.

[striker]

You have to think that Carl Crawford might be available. TB has alot of OFs and he is expensive for them. Maybe they would do a swisher for crawford deal? They could use the power and swisher can play RF, LF, CF, DH and 1B.

[sircaffey]

Why is Poreda a lock for "awesome setup man". Trading away one of the best closers in the game while he is under team control for years and makes

 

It's not the dumbest idea posted. Jenks is a risk to keep around, and always will be. His elbow is rebuilt and his K rate is dropping at an alarming rate. He's still great, but he has red flags and to not even consider trading him at peak value would be one of the dumbest ideas, imo. I don't want to trade Jenks just for the sake of trading him at peak value, but if there was a suitable option to replace him then sure.

[jenksycat]

It's not the dumbest idea posted. Jenks is a risk to keep around, and always will be. His elbow is rebuilt and his K rate is dropping at an alarming rate. He's still great, but he has red flags and to not even consider trading him at peak value would be one of the dumbest ideas, imo. I don't want to trade Jenks just for the sake of trading him at peak value, but if there was a suitable option to replace him then sure.

 

Well there is no suitable option. Moving Thorndog to the closer role means you lose him in the 7th or 8th. Nobody we have is guaranteed to fill that spot like he can/did. The way I see it, we have 2 reliable guys in our 'pen: Thorton and Jenks. And until someone steps up and proves to be as reliable as them, neither one of those guys is moving.

[GoodAsGould]

You have to think that Carl Crawford might be available. TB has alot of OFs and he is expensive for them. Maybe they would do a swisher for crawford deal? They could use the power and swisher can play RF, LF, CF, DH and 1B.

 

If they have a ton of OF's how come they dont have any competent enough to play RF. They had a ton of OF's but Baldelli went down with his sickness and they traded Delmon Young and Elijah Dukes. No way in hell do the Rays trade Crawford.

[Princess Dye]

The trading Jenks idea is based on the belief that it's about to get worse for him. That a hard thrower at his age is having his K-rate decrease and that his luck from last year (not all luck obviously) could run out in a year.

 

That right now is the time to sell high. The fact that he's entering arb years is not something we're overlooking; it's a huge asset to his trade value!!

 

So there's really no arguing for or against something like that. It's a roll of the dice, some want to take it if they can get good value with OBP. Some dont want to take that risk, and feel the bullpen would be understaffed w/o him. There's all the sense in the world in that.

 

 

 

 

But every year you have to rotate new talent into your bullpen. It's not that wild to think we'd have to do something all teams do constantly. And it will either work or it wont. In '05 we got lucky that some bullpen arms all decided to be alive at once.

 

Not faulting anyone for wanting to hold onto him. But dont pretend like Jenks is the dominant guy he once was. If someone offers a great top of the lineup OBP speedster for Jenks, you really have to think about that.

 

Because a position player will be around for awhile, whereas a pitcher can leave you any moment. See Scott Linebrink.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Princess Dye

[jenksycat]

The trading Jenks idea is based on the belief that it's about to get worse for him. That a hard thrower at his age is having his K-rate decrease and that his luck from last year (not all luck obviously) could run out in a year.

 

That right now is the time to sell high. The fact that he's entering arb years is not something we're overlooking; it's a huge asset to his trade value!!

 

So there's really no arguing for or against something like that. It's a roll of the dice, some want to take it if they can get good value with OBP. Some dont want to take that risk, and feel the bullpen would be understaffed w/o him. There's all the sense in the world in that.

 

 

 

 

But every year you have to rotate new talent into your bullpen. It's not that wild to think we'd have to do something all teams do constantly. And it will either work or it wont. In '05 we got lucky that some bullpen arms all decided to be alive at once.

 

Not faulting anyone for wanting to hold onto him. But dont pretend like Jenks is the dominant guy he once was. If someone offers a great top of the lineup OBP speedster for Jenks, you really have to think about that.

 

Because a position player will be around for awhile, whereas a pitcher can leave you any moment. See Scott Linebrink.

 

My love for Jenks is too strong . But in reality, if someone (Poreda, Richard etc) stepped up for an entire season, then I could see trading him. But seeing how fragile bulpens are for the majority of teams, I'm not dumping the one of the 2 solid guys we have until I'm certain there is someone there to step up.

[sircaffey]

Well there is no suitable option. Moving Thorndog to the closer role means you lose him in the 7th or 8th. Nobody we have is guaranteed to fill that spot like he can/did. The way I see it, we have 2 reliable guys in our 'pen: Thorton and Jenks. And until someone steps up and proves to be as reliable as them, neither one of those guys is moving.

 

Yes, there is no in-house replacement.