Peavy Rejects Sox Offer; Deal Now Dead

[BearSox]

Hypothetically, if we could get Oswalt for Shelby, Cook, Retherford, and Omogrosso. Would you do it?

 

In a heartbeat. Not a fan of Shelby, Cook isn't anything special, Retherford is a nice story but I question his potential. Omogrosso is interesting from what I've heard, but likely a bullpen arm. You do that deal in a heartbeat and run home laughing.

[BearSox]

And he's done it pitching at a launching pad. I was hesitant of Oswalt but I have taken a bit more of a look and he's not as bad of an option, assuming you can get him for a bit less than Peavy.

That's the way I kind of feel right now. Obviously, most people would prefer Peavy. But Oswalt would give us that power righty we have been missing since Contreras/Garcia of 2005.

 

The Astros have one of the worst farm systems in baseball, IIRC, so they could be looking for help in several directions. Obviously Poreda would be a part of the deal, but they could definitely use someone like Getz at 2B. Retherford could be a decent option for them. Shelby would be intriguing for them. Allen, not so much since they have Berkman and Lee. If we could get the deal done for Poreda, Shelby, Getz/Retherford, and one of the pitchers in our system not named Hudson, I'd be all for that.

[Chisoxfn]

Hypothetically, if we could get Oswalt for Shelby, Cook, Retherford, and Omogrosso. Would you do it?

Umm, why even discuss this. The only way that deal gets done is if the Astros need to get rid of Oswalts contract and if they really really love Omogrosso and Shelby. Omogrosso is the best piece in that deal and thats coming from a guy that really likes Shelby. I think once Shelby figures things out he'll hit for a very high average but he's more of a sleeper than a drop dead stud prospect. Omogrosso has a mid 90's fastball and now that he's healthy and past his blister problems he's been pretty dominating.

 

I haven't seen enough of him as a starter (the few times I've seen him pitch have been in shorter, relief outings) to know whether he has enough secondary pitches to make it as a starter but again, if the Astros felt he did, than the value of the package increases.

 

And either way, I'd make the deal in a heartbeat. I'd even be willing to give up a Carter, Hudson, etc. I doubt the Stros do though.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Hypothetically, if we could get Oswalt for Shelby, Cook, Retherford, and Omogrosso. Would you do it?

 

 

Of course. Only top notch prospect leaving would be Shelby, who has struggled this year. No way Houston would do that though, as it would be a horrid trade for them. Cook is not a prospect and Retherford has no value as a prospect.

[ThunderBolt]

Umm, why even discuss this.

Because it's Wednesday at 12:39, and i'm unemployed at the moment?

[ThunderBolt]

Of course. Only top notch prospect leaving would be Shelby, who has struggled this year. No way Houston would do that though, as it would be a horrid trade for them. Cook is not a prospect and Retherford has no value as a prospect.

Never underestimate Ed Wade, my friend.

[Chisoxfn]

Because it's Wednesday at 12:39, and i'm unemployed at the moment?

The point was more that you'd have to put up a better package. Start with Poreda. A package of Poreda, Shelby, Omogrosso would be a nice starting point, imo. See where things go from there.

 

Bottom line, your offer didn't even have one of our 5 best prospects invovled in the trade and that is in a deal to get us one of the premiere arms in baseball. I'd say the above offer I made probably gets laughed at, the only difference is in this economy the economic savings from getting rid of Oswalts deal would be worth a substantial value, imo. But Houston isn't in the same shape that San Diego was.

[Kyyle23]

Because it's Wednesday at 12:39, and i'm unemployed at the moment?

 

 

Whoa whoa whoa, nobody said anything about reality here. Keep that up and you are busted

[ThunderBolt]

The point was more that you'd have to put up a better package. Start with Poreda. A package of Poreda, Shelby, Omogrosso would be a nice starting point, imo. See where things go from there.

 

Bottom line, your offer didn't even have one of our 5 best prospects invovled in the trade and that is in a deal to get us one of the premiere arms in baseball. I'd say the above offer I made probably gets laughed at, the only difference is in this economy the economic savings from getting rid of Oswalts deal would be worth a substantial value, imo. But Houston isn't in the same shape that San Diego was.

The economy is the X-Factor here, but the Astros have shown no signs that it's a huge concern for them. I'd agree that Poreda should be the prize of this deal in a realistic world.

[Chisoxfn]

The economy is the X-Factor here, but the Astros have shown no signs that it's a huge concern for them. I'd agree that Poreda should be the prize of this deal in a realistic world.

Oh and than the next question is what do the Astros want the most, Pitching/Hitting, etc. Are they looking for a quick fix, etc. I just don't know with there situation but I do know they have very little quality talent in there system so they'd probably be going best players and if I were them I'd start by asking for Poreda, Beckham, and Danks.

[WCSox]

Is dealing for Peavy necesarily going for it "now"? The guy is signed through 2012 and most likely would have an option picked up for '13. This guy stabilizes our team for years.

 

Not necessarily, but you'd have to think that they're in a better spot right now with Thome, Dye, and Konerko... not to mention Buehrle still in his prime and under contract. Jenks, Dotel, and Linebrink will also be difficult to replace.

 

I was also factoring in a strong chance of Peavy being dealt from Chicago before the end of his contract.

 

Trust me, the Sox are looking at a 3-5 year window right now, so any pitcher they get has to fit into the plan that they'll be able to help the Sox compete for the next 3 to 5 years, well, as long as its a pitcher you have to give up substantial talent for.

 

I honestly don't think that the Sox will have near the talent three years from now that they've had for the past season and a half. That's not to say that they'll suck or anything, but replacing Thome, Dye, Konerko, Jenks, Dotel, Linebrink, and possibly Buehrle will be next to impossible. The farm system looks better than it's been for a while, but nobody's going to confuse it with the collection of talent that Larry Himes put together in the late '80s.

 

Given that Kenny tends to not give more than three-year deals to pitchers, I don't think that a five-year window is applicable. Unless the Sox end up trading for somebody really young like Verlander or Felix Hernandez, and getting one's hands on those guys would be incredibly difficult and costly.

 

Roy Oswalt probably isn't near the top of there list. Unless the price isn't that substantial. For example, if you could get Oswalt without giving up Richard (so same package as Peavy hypothetically, less Richard, than I'd understand a bit more).

 

I disagree, and feel that Oswalt would be a better deal for the Sox than Peavy. Even if we discount the talent that the Sox will be losing over the next three years, Oswalt's contract is MUCH more manageable. Trading for Oswalt, picking up JD's option, bringing up Beckham, and offering a one-year deal to Thome this winter could make a for a very strong 2010 Sox.

Edited May 27, 2009 by WCSox

[Marty34]

I disagree, and feel that Oswalt would be a better deal for the Sox than Peavy. Even if we discount the talent that the Sox will be losing over the next three years, Oswalt's contract is MUCH more manageable. Trading for Oswalt, picking up JD's option, bringing up Beckham, and offering a one-year deal to Thome this winter could make a for a very strong 2010 Sox.

 

Oswalt is not a #1 or #2 starter right now. A year from now he might not even be a #3 starter.

[WCSox]

Oswalt is not a #1 or #2 starter right now. A year from now he might not even be a #3 starter.

 

Small sample size. Mark Buehrle wasn't a #3 or #4 starter in 2006. How'd that work out?

 

[Marty34]

Small sample size. Mark Buehrle wasn't a #3 or #4 starter in 2006. How'd that work out?

 

Oswalt is 32 and not a top of the rotation starter. He has seen his better days. Why in the world would the Sox want to pay him for the next three years?

[Chisoxfn]

Oswalt is not a #1 or #2 starter right now. A year from now he might not even be a #3 starter.

Oswalt is struggling a bit this year but the stuff is still there and he was dominant the 2nd half of last year.

[Marty34]

Oswalt is struggling a bit this year but the stuff is still there and he was dominant the 2nd half of last year.

 

 

Pass on Oswalt. Far too much money owed, downhill side of career.

[BearSox]

Oswalt is 32 and not a top of the rotation starter. He has seen his better days. Why in the world would the Sox want to pay him for the next three years?

 

That's the one thing right there, he's practically 32 and is leaving his prime. Peavy, Haren, and Cain are all pitchers either just entering their prime or in Cain's case, still a couple years away from his prime. However, Oswalt would likely be the easiest to acquire and even when he gets up there, he should still be at least a decent no. 3.

[WCSox]

Pass on Oswalt. Far too much money owed, downhill side of career.

 

Pure conjecture on your part, based on less than two months worth of starts.

 

[Heads22]

If we're ever in the World Series against the Reds, we need Roy.

[Marty34]

Pure conjecture on your part, based on less than two months worth of starts.

 

He's 32. He's no more than a big name (with a big contract) at this point in his career.

[TheBigHurt]

Pass on Oswalt. Far too much money owed, downhill side of career.

 

Nothing better than pointless assumptions. I love posts like these.

[RockRaines]

He's 32. He's no more than a big name (with a big contract) at this point in his career.

Fail.

[Steve9347]

Fail.

His era HAS risen steadily the last three years.

[Marty34]

Nothing better than pointless assumptions. I love posts like these.

 

 

It's a bigger assumption to think Oswalt is still a top starter. If the point of a Peavy trade is to get a pitcher who is better than Buehrle, which is how I'm viewing it, that pitcher is not Roy Oswalt.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Marty34

[Kalapse]

He's 32. He's no more than a big name (with a big contract) at this point in his career.

So what happened over his final 21 starts last year when he threw 139.2 IP, 1.87 BB/9, 7.22 K/9, 3.86 K/BB, 0.52 HR/9, 2.51 ERA, 1.02 WHIP and a .225/.270/.310/.585 against? That includes a 32.1 IP scoreless streak in early September in which he threw back to back shutouts.

 

Those are some pretty gaudy numbers for a #3 starter.