White Sox Winnah

[caulfield12]

Nice win, but...

 

I've mentioned this before, but I'm getting pretty sick and tired of watching Alexei out there. I've been one of his biggest fans and backers the past 2 years, but this s*** is getting old.

 

Since there's not much hope for the rest of the season, IMO, there's no point in not letting Alexei go out there everyday and try and prove something, but I'm getting to the point where I don't think he's good enough to be an everyday player.

 

I would not be upset at all to see Beckham getting a lot of time at SS. Alexei can still be a very valuable utility guy who can play all 3 OF spots as well 2B, 3B, and SS with average or better D. However, I don't think Alexei can be counted on as an everyday player. He tries to hit home runs every AB, and he just doesn't seem to have much baseball IQ (he's a natural player, but he's a bonehead).

 

 

After Thome/Dye/Konerko (especially with Paulie on the shelf and AJ struggling), Alexei's the one player on the roster who has the ability to carry and spark this team offensively with Carlos out.

 

We saw it last year. Alexei's OPS is probably about the same or a little bit higher than Orlando Cabrera's last year...and he's got one of the best "bargain" contracts in the game.

 

What other player in the line-up has shown the ability to have that kind of an offensive impact? Pods is hitting well, but he's not scaring anyone on the basepaths, but White Sox fans. Beckham isn't ready yet and he's starting to press.

 

Fields (based on 2007 only) is the other player who COULD have this affect on the offensive production...Anderson, Nix and Getz are simply complementary players who wouldn't be starting on MOST serious World Series contenders. You can have a player or two like that in the line-up, but not 3-4.

Edited June 12, 2009 by caulfield12

[Jordan4life_2007]

Nice win, but...

 

I've mentioned this before, but I'm getting pretty sick and tired of watching Alexei out there. I've been one of his biggest fans and backers the past 2 years, but this s*** is getting old.

 

Since there's not much hope for the rest of the season, IMO, there's no point in not letting Alexei go out there everyday and try and prove something, but I'm getting to the point where I don't think he's good enough to be an everyday player.

 

I would not be upset at all to see Beckham getting a lot of time at SS. Alexei can still be a very valuable utility guy who can play all 3 OF spots as well 2B, 3B, and SS with average or better D. However, I don't think Alexei can be counted on as an everyday player. He tries to hit home runs every AB, and he just doesn't seem to have much baseball IQ (he's a natural player, but he's a bonehead).

 

What the hell are you talking about? Alexei went from 2nd in the ROY last year to "valuable utility" guy in just over two months?

 

Alexei's line the last 30 days (113 at bats): .301/.358/.425/.783

 

Yeah, he started out like horses***. But he's been pretty good the last month. I have no idea where you're coming from.

 

 

[justBLAZE]

Well I said in the chat before this division is anyones to take and was told it's not the White Sox to take.

 

How close was this series?

 

We shoulda won the series 3-2 if not 4-1 because of the terrible umpiring (let me cry about it for once).

 

Regardless didn't we manage to score more runs than Detroit in this series?

 

A lot of what ifs but.. What if we stay close and Q comes back and gives us a boost and Beckham starts producing out of the 3B spot? BAM.

 

 

[BearSox]

whoa whoa whoa... I never said bench Alexei or anything and there's no reason not to let him play for the rest of the year... All I'm saying is if he doesn't show some real good improvement by the end of the year, I'm wondering if it might be wisest putting Beckham at SS, and at the very least, Alexei could be a very solid utility guy.

[witesoxfan]

whoa whoa whoa... I never said bench Alexei or anything and there's no reason not to let him play for the rest of the year... All I'm saying is if he doesn't show some real good improvement by the end of the year, I'm wondering if it might be wisest putting Beckham at SS, and at the very least, Alexei could be a very solid utility guy.

 

 

but I'm getting to the point where I don't think he's good enough to be an everyday player.

 

That is pretty telling right there.

[Jordan4life_2007]

whoa whoa whoa... I never said bench Alexei or anything and there's no reason not to let him play for the rest of the year... All I'm saying is if he doesn't show some real good improvement by the end of the year, I'm wondering if it might be wisest putting Beckham at SS, and at the very least, Alexei could be a very solid utility guy.

 

But he already has shown real good improvement. Or are you just going to ignore his numbers for the last month?

[witesoxfan]

Gavin, this type of start is why you are my homeboy. I say he ends up with better numbers than Danks this season, except maybe K/9.

[RockRaines]

Nice win, but...

 

I've mentioned this before, but I'm getting pretty sick and tired of watching Alexei out there. I've been one of his biggest fans and backers the past 2 years, but this s*** is getting old.

 

Since there's not much hope for the rest of the season, IMO, there's no point in not letting Alexei go out there everyday and try and prove something, but I'm getting to the point where I don't think he's good enough to be an everyday player.

 

I would not be upset at all to see Beckham getting a lot of time at SS. Alexei can still be a very valuable utility guy who can play all 3 OF spots as well 2B, 3B, and SS with average or better D. However, I don't think Alexei can be counted on as an everyday player. He tries to hit home runs every AB, and he just doesn't seem to have much baseball IQ (he's a natural player, but he's a bonehead).

What are you sick of exactly? His hitting? He's been improving his numbers pretty much consistently this season. He's coming back around, give him time. He will be hitting .290 by the end of the season. He's also a MUCH better defended than Beckham is at SS, even as this is his rookie season playing the position.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Can you guys imagine where we would be if he had have signed Orlando Hudson and kept Javier Vasquez? I don't care if he can't win in big games - he was an innings eater that got us to big games in the fall.

 

Well we wouldn't have Tyler Flowers or Jon Gilmore for one. And two, we'd have a pitcher incapable of winning games for a winning ball club who was publicly chastised after the Tampa series last year. Also, given Hudson who is injury prone, that much money would have been risky and we may not have had the money to then give to Viciedo.

 

 

Are we that sure that Tyler Flowers is a lock to contribute in the big leagues in the next few years? I mean I think with Orlando Hudson at 2nd playing like he has been for the Dodgers and with Javy playing like he always does we would definitely be in first place in this division.

 

No prospect is ever a lock, but Tyler Flowers has Mike Piazza power number potential (or close to it) behind the plate and that does not come around too often.

 

And LMAO at the bolded comment. Seriously? Have you followed his career?

 

I mean enough with this f***ing Javy Vazquez garbage. I can't believe people are still bringing him up and complaining we got rid of him. He was almost universally loathed on this website after the end of last season and a lot of people were willing to let him go for garbage. We put ourselves in a position where we pretty much had to trade him and KW went out and got a pretty good return for him in the process. I laugh every time someone complains about getting rid of him.

 

Nice win, but...

 

I've mentioned this before, but I'm getting pretty sick and tired of watching Alexei out there. I've been one of his biggest fans and backers the past 2 years, but this s*** is getting old.

 

Since there's not much hope for the rest of the season, IMO, there's no point in not letting Alexei go out there everyday and try and prove something, but I'm getting to the point where I don't think he's good enough to be an everyday player.

 

I would not be upset at all to see Beckham getting a lot of time at SS. Alexei can still be a very valuable utility guy who can play all 3 OF spots as well 2B, 3B, and SS with average or better D. However, I don't think Alexei can be counted on as an everyday player. He tries to hit home runs every AB, and he just doesn't seem to have much baseball IQ (he's a natural player, but he's a bonehead).

 

For real?

 

The guy finished second in RoY last year and has hit the ball much better as of late. He started real slow and has definitely picked it up. Alexei has a bat capable of carrying this team if he can get hot and he is a plus defender at SS as well. Thinking about relegating to backup duty at this point in his career is ridiculous. Talk about an over reaction.

 

 

The sleeper story here is Josh Fields with a nice game. It doesn’t look pretty on the surface but 0-1 with 3 BB’s is a marked improvement. Also, Jenksy owes Floyd a win and a beer. Here’s hoping the Scotty Pods 2005 reunion tour keeps producing these kinds of results.

 

I noticed that too. Despite his low average his OBP on the year is close to respectable. One of his biggest problems as we all know has been his strikeouts. It's always a positive sign when a player like him can work 3 walks in a game like that.

Edited June 12, 2009 by ChiSox_Sonix

[RockRaines]

We all have to remember that Alexei is a rookie at SS this season, he is going to miss some plays, but he has the arm and range to be a plus defender over there and is MUCH better than Beckham is and will be. Now that I see Bacon on the field, I can see he will stick at 3B or 2B based on his range, and really his length, he is a VERY short baseball player.

[EvilJester99]

We all have to remember that Alexei is a rookie at SS this season, he is going to miss some plays, but he has the arm and range to be a plus defender over there and is MUCH better than Beckham is and will be. Now that I see Bacon on the field, I can see he will stick at 3B or 2B based on his range, and really his length, he is a VERY short baseball player.

I think Alexei tries to showboat a little too much. He tries to make easy plays look harder than they are and he is going to mess them up....

[lostfan]

We all have to remember that Alexei is a rookie at SS this season, he is going to miss some plays, but he has the arm and range to be a plus defender over there and is MUCH better than Beckham is and will be. Now that I see Bacon on the field, I can see he will stick at 3B or 2B based on his range, and really his length, he is a VERY short baseball player.

Alexei has a lot of natural athletic ability that will make him, at least, an average defender. Given the potential of his bat, I'd be more than happy with that kind of player at SS. But I still think his mental lapses, and at times unnecessary (but pretty) flashiness are probably going to keep him from being an elite defender. That's ok though, as long as he's hitting.

[southsider2k5]

Are we that sure that Tyler Flowers is a lock to contribute in the big leagues in the next few years? I mean I think with Orlando Hudson at 2nd playing like he has been for the Dodgers and with Javy playing like he always does we would definitely be in first place in this division.

 

There is zero chance Vazquez would be having the same kind of year here. He is a mental midget. After the ass-kicking Ozzie gave him at the end of last year, he would have had a horrible year here, because he would have been too tight to be able to function.

[DABearSoX]

So huge to see both Gavin and Danks looking like their 08 versions. This team can make a move if those guys pitch like top of the rotation guys, instead of backenders.

 

totally agree, if they keep this up we could turn this thing around. They are a big reason why we sit 5.5 games back as of this point. If they get back to their 08 form and we can stave off the health bug we could be sitting pretty. The AL central is a crapshoot...If this was the east we'd be done.

[southsideirish71]

Nice pitching by the Count, Danks and Gavin this series. We need the offense to get rid of the pucker factor when a guy gets into scoring position. Good win.

 

 

[WCSox]

There is zero chance Vazquez would be having the same kind of year here. He is a mental midget. After the ass-kicking Ozzie gave him at the end of last year, he would have had a horrible year here, because he would have been too tight to be able to function.

 

I don't know about that. I'm sure that Vazquez has gotten many tongue-lashings over the years that the media never heard about.

 

To be fair, Javy won quite a few low-pressure regular-season games for the Sox. He'd be more of an asset at the back of the rotation than the current merry-go-round of crap that occupies the #4 and #5 spots. That said, I'm glad that Kenny dealt him. His performance didn't come close to matching his salary... and he got Flowers in return.

Edited June 12, 2009 by WCSox

[Chisoxfn]

overreact much? Thank God you are a poster and not a GM.

AJ, I don't mean to call you out cause your a long time poster and a very good one at that (and it is with that in mind that I think you can handle this) but I want to point out this post as being the type of post we dont' want to see at Soxtalk.

 

While I realize you are stating the obvious in the sense that clearly there is a bit of an overreaction to Alexei Ramirez play. However at the same time, BearSox is sharing his opinion (not fact, opinion). I'd rather see you say, I disagree and heres why or just ignore the post overall. There is no need for the semi personal attack.

 

Again AJ, don't mean to call you out, but I want posters to see what I'm talking about when I say I want to see some changes.

[BearSox]

But he already has shown real good improvement. Or are you just going to ignore his numbers for the last month?

 

I want to see more consistency out of him. He has a couple of games where he goes 6 for 12, and then he has a couple more games where he looks foolish. And on D, he could be elite or close to it, but he makes a lot of boneheaded plays.

 

I love Alexei, have been his biggest backer for the past 2 years, but I'm not gonna be like "Oh joy, he's had a solid month, he's awesome!" No reason not to let him start for the rest of the season, but if he doesn't improve his consistency and overall play, I'm saying it might not be a terrible idea to go with Beckham at SS and see how he handles it.

[WCSox]

I want to see more consistency out of him. He has a couple of games where he goes 6 for 12, and then he has a couple more games where he looks foolish. And on D, he could be elite or close to it, but he makes a lot of boneheaded plays.

 

I love Alexei, have been his biggest backer for the past 2 years, but I'm not gonna be like "Oh joy, he's had a solid month, he's awesome!" No reason not to let him start for the rest of the season, but if he doesn't improve his consistency and overall play, I'm saying it might not be a terrible idea to go with Beckham at SS and see how he handles it.

 

The problem isn't Alexei's play at SS, it's his bat (which appears to be coming around). I don't mind playing Beckham, but I don't see a need to remove Alexei from SS.

 

[BearSox]

The problem isn't Alexei's play at SS, it's his bat (which appears to be coming around). I don't mind playing Beckham, but I don't see a need to remove Alexei from SS.

 

From what I look for in a SS is not only someone who makes great plays, but is a leader on the field. So far Alexei hasn't shown the later. A lot of it probably has to do with him speaking a different language then everyone else, but there's been an overall lack of communication between the infielders and infielders, and the infielders with the outfielders. I believe it's the short stop's job to direct traffic and make the call.

 

Too many times we've seen a ball bloop just between the 2B, SS, and CF. Too many times we've had missed communications out there.

 

Think whatever you want of Jeter's D at SS, he's a great leader on the field.

[Chisoxfn]

Alexei is in his second season in the majors and his first full-season. Everyone here has probably heard of the sophmore slump and Alexei went through it early in the season. Teams had a full off-season to scout players and major league pitchers made a major adjustment to how they pitched Alexei and he had a hell of a time handling the breaking pitch early in the season.

 

He has since made adjustments and has been playing much better, as evidence of his past months numbers (and his seasonal numbers, all of which are trending upwards). He also was playing SS for truly his first time at the major league level and while I realize he was a natural SS (or so they say) it wasn't as if he had been a fixture at short in Cuba either.

 

So bottom line we have a guy that is still developing, although he is a bit older, and he put up fantastic numbers last season and shows the ability to be one of those guys that can hit for a very high average.

 

Will he ever match the numbers he put up last year, I don't know, but I certainly think he's earned a shot and shown enough to warrant an extended look and it would be very foolish to be short-sighted and deem him a utility player based upon two below average months and really only three below average months in his young major league career (and one of those months was his first month in the majors where he hardly ever played).

[Chisoxfn]

Gavin, this type of start is why you are my homeboy. I say he ends up with better numbers than Danks this season, except maybe K/9.

The biggest reason I think Gavin is better than Danks and it is also the reason Gavin will probably win more games most seasons is because of Gavins ability to pitch deeper into ball games. I really love Gavin. I love the s*** out of Danks too and clearly if you were going to ask around the majors Danks is the better of the two (has more trade value) but man I'm glad we have both of them.

[BearSox]

Alexei is in his second season in the majors and his first full-season. Everyone here has probably heard of the sophmore slump and Alexei went through it early in the season. Teams had a full off-season to scout players and major league pitchers made a major adjustment to how they pitched Alexei and he had a hell of a time handling the breaking pitch early in the season.

 

He has since made adjustments and has been playing much better, as evidence of his past months numbers (and his seasonal numbers, all of which are trending upwards). He also was playing SS for truly his first time at the major league level and while I realize he was a natural SS (or so they say) it wasn't as if he had been a fixture at short in Cuba either.

 

So bottom line we have a guy that is still developing, although he is a bit older, and he put up fantastic numbers last season and shows the ability to be one of those guys that can hit for a very high average.

 

Will he ever match the numbers he put up last year, I don't know, but I certainly think he's earned a shot and shown enough to warrant an extended look and it would be very foolish to be short-sighted and deem him a utility player based upon two below average months and really only three below average months in his young major league career (and one of those months was his first month in the majors where he hardly ever played).

Again, that's not what I'm doing. I keep saying there's no reason why Alexei shouldn't play out the rest of the season at SS... All I'm saying is depending on how the rest of the year goes, it might not be bad idea to move Alexei to maybe another spot and see how Beckham handles SS.

[Chisoxfn]

Again, that's not what I'm doing. I keep saying there's no reason why Alexei shouldn't play out the rest of the season at SS... All I'm saying is depending on how the rest of the year goes, it might not be bad idea to move Alexei to maybe another spot and see how Beckham handles SS.

Considering Alexei has the better defensive skill-set, it probably should be Beckham that switches positions. Alexei has more range and the stronger arm and he also has very good hands. In the limited amount I've seen Beckham he too has good hands but his arm and range wouldn't be above average for a shortstop while Ramirez is.

 

Now if the Sox can't find a Cfer and deem it best to have Beckham at SS and Alexei in CF than I might understand but if we have someone able to play CF and plan on starting both Beck and Alexei in the IF, than Alexei should be the one playing SS every time.

[rangercal]

AJ, I don't mean to call you out cause your a long time poster and a very good one at that (and it is with that in mind that I think you can handle this) but I want to point out this post as being the type of post we dont' want to see at Soxtalk.

 

While I realize you are stating the obvious in the sense that clearly there is a bit of an overreaction to Alexei Ramirez play. However at the same time, BearSox is sharing his opinion (not fact, opinion). I'd rather see you say, I disagree and heres why or just ignore the post overall. There is no need for the semi personal attack.

 

Again AJ, don't mean to call you out, but I want posters to see what I'm talking about when I say I want to see some changes.

 

You are absolutely right. Got caught in the moment. Sorry about that Bearsox.