When is this nightmare going to stop?

[scenario]

Richard's minor league BB/9 is 2.5, which is very good.

 

This year for the Sox, it's up around 3.8, which is not acceptable.

 

Whatever is causing the control problem has to be identified and fixed.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Richard's minor league BB/9 is 2.5, which is very good.

 

This year for the Sox, it's up around 3.8, which is not acceptable.

 

Whatever is causing the control problem has to be identified and fixed.

 

 

As well as a few problems with holding on runners and fielding his position...

[Vote4Pedro]

yeah i agree throwing poreda out there for a few starts wont hurt anything i dont think he can do any worse than what clayton did today

[scotty22hotty]

Whats with all of the Poreda ignorance in this thread?

The guy is a legit #4-5 right now.

Though it seems KW only wants to show him off in small amounts to boost his value for a possible upcoming trade...

[caulfield12]

 

 

If Poreda's a legit 4/5 starter now, then there must be another conspiracy (like there was against BA) to keep him out of the starting rotation...

 

Right.

 

Seriously, what has anyone seen out of Poreda in the minors or majors this year that gives us much hope he won't do anything but pile up huge numbers of pitches per inning (he won't miss as many bats with his FB at the big league level), that he won't be able to consistently put away hitters with his offspeed stuff (see Richard again), that he won't be consistently pitching much past the fifth inning...

 

Half of the people on this board would rather leave him in the bullpen simply because they think he will be exposed (like Gio Gonzalez was) as a starting pitcher and that his trade value (pretty high right now) will be driven right into the ground? Then again, how can he max out his trade value if he can't prove he has the ability to win a start at the big league level, like Brandon McCarthy did more than once in much more difficult/trying circumstances down the stretch run in 2005 when his every outing with almost life or death and it was Brandon and Jose breathing needed life and oxygen for the rest of the team that was seemingly choking to death.

 

 

[DaTank]

Why not give AP a chance? Clayton has been complete trash. There's a chance Poreda gets crushed. So what? Clayton Richard is doing the exact same thing right now. Poreda has a ton more upside so how would it hurt us by reversiving their roles? Poreda can't possibly be worse than Clayton at this point.

[Heads22]

We need to trade for another starter.

[caulfield12]

Why not give AP a chance? Clayton has been complete trash. There's a chance Poreda gets crushed. So what? Clayton Richard is doing the exact same thing right now. Poreda has a ton more upside so how would it hurt us by reversiving their roles? Poreda can't possibly be worse than Clayton at this point.

 

 

Why does Poreda have a "ton more upside" than Clayton?

 

Because he's a first round draft pick (late)?

Because he hasn't shown a consistent or electric fastball like he was hyped to have...one that has been 1-3 MPH under Clayton's?

Because he throws a "decent" slider and "good" change like Clayton?

 

Poreda seems, from watching him a bit, that he changes his motion even more than Richard when throwing offspeed stuff...he will get hit hard, just like Clayton got hit hard throwing just one pitch consistently for strikes and falling behind in counts.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

We need to trade for another starter.

Yep. Ramirez, Poreda, Flowers and Richard/Hudson for Roy Halliday and Scott Rolen.

[Steve9347]

I hope people create more of the same thread.

[BigSqwert]

Richard's trade value keeps going down with each appearance.

Edited July 9, 2009 by BigSqwert

[Lemon_44]

why change anything? The team is playing well, the bullpen roles are set, and evrything is looking up in the 2nd half. Sure CR needs to pitch better but he's a 5th starter in his first full year in the majors. I know it would be nice if he was 8-4 with a sub 4 era but he's going to struggle and we should expect a slightly under .500 record with a 4.5+ era this year. So he's had a bad stretch.Every pitcher has them. I give him about 5 more starts and then get a better read on him. If he's still struggling then send him down. I don't know how anyone can predict success or failure for Poreda on his 7 innings of work. I haven't been all that impressed by him and think he would get torched the 2nd time through any lineup. Just like everyone talks like Beckham is some kind of superstar when , in fact, right now he's a below average 3b batting in the .230's.

[DaTank]

Why does Poreda have a "ton more upside" than Clayton?

 

Because he's a first round draft pick (late)?

Because he hasn't shown a consistent or electric fastball like he was hyped to have...one that has been 1-3 MPH under Clayton's?

Because he throws a "decent" slider and "good" change like Clayton?

 

Poreda seems, from watching him a bit, that he changes his motion even more than Richard when throwing offspeed stuff...he will get hit hard, just like Clayton got hit hard throwing just one pitch consistently for strikes and falling behind in counts.

 

Let's disregard the fact that Poreda has actually been ranked as a top 20-25 pitching prospect in all of baseball. Let's compare their career stats in the minors.

 

ERA:

Poreda - 2.62

Richard - 3.35

 

WHIP:

Poreda - 1.14

Richard - 1.27

 

H9:

Poreda - 7.4

Richard - 8.9

 

BB9:

Poreda - 2.8

Richard - 2.5

 

K9:

Poreda - 7.8

Richard - 5.8

 

Poreda's stats

Richard's stats

Edited July 10, 2009 by jenks45monster

[brendol]

why change anything? The team is playing well, the bullpen roles are set, and evrything is looking up in the 2nd half. Sure CR needs to pitch better but he's a 5th starter in his first full year in the majors. I know it would be nice if he was 8-4 with a sub 4 era but he's going to struggle and we should expect a slightly under .500 record with a 4.5+ era this year. So he's had a bad stretch.Every pitcher has them. I give him about 5 more starts and then get a better read on him. If he's still struggling then send him down. I don't know how anyone can predict success or failure for Poreda on his 7 innings of work. I haven't been all that impressed by him and think he would get torched the 2nd time through any lineup. Just like everyone talks like Beckham is some kind of superstar when , in fact, right now he's a below average 3b batting in the .230's.

 

Every time Clayton starts, our bullpen gets worked... we need to change the 5th starter.

[knightni]

So, basically if the minors to mlb ratio holds, Poreda will walk 5-6 guys for every 9 innings pitched.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Every time Clayton starts, our bullpen gets worked... we need to change the 5th starter.

If Poreda starts the bullpen will get worked as well. Also, at this time, I think you might be shocked at what the opposition will be able to do against Poreda the second time through the line-up. His breaking stuff is average at best, the other night he was throwing mostly 92, hit 94 twice, and 90 several times. He's not the savior. He can be a big help in the bullpen . As a starter, I think if he's going to be much of one, its going to be at least 2010.

[brendol]

If Poreda starts the bullpen will get worked as well. Also, at this time, I think you might be shocked at what the opposition will be able to do against Poreda the second time through the line-up. His breaking stuff is average at best, the other night he was throwing mostly 92, hit 94 twice, and 90 several times. He's not the savior. He can be a big help in the bullpen . As a starter, I think if he's going to be much of one, its going to be at least 2010.

Yeah, I am kind of disappointed that he doesn't have this 96 mph fastball that all the scouting reports said he has... I'm not sure if he will be the answer or not, but Clayton went one freaking inning today and hasn't gone too far in any of his recent starts. Something needs to change, might as well try out Poreda.

[Dick Allen]

Colon has only given up 1 hit through 4 innings tonight although he hasn't struck anyone out. Maybe he can do the job. He had his moments earlier this year.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I like the way Poreda seems to be adjusting to his role in the pen. I see him as a reliever anyway so I'd prefer to keep him there.

 

Poreda = good in the pen right now

Richard = bad in the rotation right now

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Poreda is fine where he is, and is doing much better there than Richard was, so fix the area where the hole is without opening up another one somewhere else.

[Dick Allen]

I like the way Poreda seems to be adjusting to his role in the pen. I see him as a reliever anyway so I'd prefer to keep him there.

 

Poreda = good in the pen right now

Richard = bad in the rotation right now

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Poreda is fine where he is, and is doing much better there than Richard was, so fix the area where the hole is without opening up another one somewhere else.

This makes sense. For all anyone knows, Poreda may struggle just as much or more than Richard if he were in the rotation, then you have 2 problems. Richard, Colon, Garcia in a month or so, or get someone else. Leave Poreda where he's having success.

[caulfield12]

I like the way Poreda seems to be adjusting to his role in the pen. I see him as a reliever anyway so I'd prefer to keep him there.

 

Poreda = good in the pen right now

Richard = bad in the rotation right now

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Poreda is fine where he is, and is doing much better there than Richard was, so fix the area where the hole is without opening up another one somewhere else.

 

With the pretty compelling counter-example of the performance of Clayton last year against the Rays in the playoffs...when he looked almost as nasty as Thornton does sometimes.

 

 

[whitesoxfan101]

Why does Poreda have a "ton more upside" than Clayton?

 

Because he's a first round draft pick (late)?

Because he hasn't shown a consistent or electric fastball like he was hyped to have...one that has been 1-3 MPH under Clayton's?

Because he throws a "decent" slider and "good" change like Clayton?

 

Poreda seems, from watching him a bit, that he changes his motion even more than Richard when throwing offspeed stuff...he will get hit hard, just like Clayton got hit hard throwing just one pitch consistently for strikes and falling behind in counts.

 

I am simply going to hope this entire post, especially the bolded, is not serious and you are simply playing devil's advocate. Aaron Poreda has a ton more upside than Clayton Richard, and will be a much better pitcher than Clayton Richard. Such is so obvious that explanation of why isn't even necessary.

[WCSox]

I'd let Richard clear his head over the break and give him another start before considering a move. If he got hit hard again, I'd probably go with Colon or possibly Poreda.

 

I think that Poreda is highly-overrated as a starter on this board. He hasn't even started a major league game yet, so who knows how he'd fare over a month or two in that role. I might feel better keeping him in the 'pen for the remainder of the season.

 

[lostfan]

I'd let Richard clear his head over the break and give him another start before considering a move. If he got hit hard again, I'd probably go with Colon or possibly Poreda.

 

I think that Poreda is highly-overrated as a starter on this board. He hasn't even started a major league game yet, so who knows how he'd fare over a month or two in that role. I might feel better keeping him in the 'pen for the remainder of the season.

We don't know if Poreda is overrated or not as a starter until he does. If he's not going to start, at least use him more in the pen. It's almost like he's a garbage time arm right now.

[WCSox]

We don't know if Poreda is overrated or not as a starter until he does. If he's not going to start, at least use him more in the pen. It's almost like he's a garbage time arm right now.

 

I agree that he should get more use in the 'pen. The problem is that it's getting very crowded in there, not to mention that Carrasco has been very good in long relief. "Platooning" long relief duties between Carrasco and Poreda might be an idea, but I don't know if it's feasible or not.