Financial News

[Y2HH]

Those are all fairly productive tax increases.

 

This is in response to both of the above...

 

First, tax increases ALWAYS are "productive", in whatever loose sense of the word "production" you're choosing to use here. Bottom line of any fee/tax, more money is going to the government...but when do we stop?

 

I don't know about you guys, but my property taxes just went up, sticker fees went up, and who knows what other taxes went up -- oh, and let's not forget water bills are about to go up, too...and now this, on top of all of that?

 

I can't speak for you, but I can speak for me, and it's to the point where it's impossible for people to save because all of our extra money is getting taken away by misc. fees and taxes at the local/state level.

 

It's absurd that they need more in light of all the increases that JUST f***ING HAPPENED.

[southsider2k5]

That's what happens when the governments credit cards get cut up. I know Daley is treated like a god, but he drove the finances of the City into the toilet. The county and state aren't in much better shape.

[bmags]

This is in response to both of the above...

 

First, tax increases ALWAYS are "productive", in whatever loose sense of the word "production" you're choosing to use here. Bottom line of any fee/tax, more money is going to the government...but when do we stop?

 

I don't know about you guys, but my property taxes just went up, sticker fees went up, and who knows what other taxes went up -- oh, and let's not forget water bills are about to go up, too...and now this, on top of all of that?

 

I can't speak for you, but I can speak for me, and it's to the point where it's impossible for people to save because all of our extra money is getting taken away by misc. fees and taxes at the local/state level.

 

It's absurd that they need more in light of all the increases that JUST f***ING HAPPENED.

 

I mean that if I was going to choose stuff to tax in order to make the city work better, those are good options. We can all talk about the budget failure, but I don't think many governments take into account 4 years of sluggish growth in a row destroying their revenues. Chicago has some good things going for it in the future, it's done a good job of becoming the sales hub of many tech companies and has had success in tech itself. It doesn't have absurd housing laws that restrict building up too much, helping with housing costs, and our crime has stayed pretty reasonable. So it will come down to forcing the politicians to cut taxes when things turn around, and for that it just depends where we focus our efforts: sales and property.

[Y2HH]

That's what happens when the governments credit cards get cut up. I know Daley is treated like a god, but he drove the finances of the City into the toilet. The county and state aren't in much better shape.

 

It's easy for people like Preckwinkle to increase fees and taxes since they make 125k+ per year (if not more), on top of their endless perks and massive pensions.

 

What baffles me is how users on this board are ok with it, and worse, DEFEND it...because obviously they must be rich or something and it doesn't affect them. *Every year* taxes and fees of some form or another have gone up -- hell, what's tax on a cell phone bill these days, approaching 20%? (Yes, TWENTY percent, you read that right). Yet in light of that, budget holes CONTINUE to get bigger...somehow.

 

It's absurd. In a time when the cost of living is skyrocketing, payrolls are down, inflation is increasing at a higher rate than standard pay raises to keep up with it...they add taxes and fees on top of other taxes and fees, because you know..."f*** the people...after all, most of them are so dumb they'll just reelect us anyway".

 

Maybe if they hadn't hired 1000+ people they didn't need in the first place, we wouldn't have to worry about making up for the money they lost over the last X years.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Y2HH

[southsider2k5]

It is easy to spend when it isn't your own money you are spending and you aren't held accountable for it.

[Jenksismyhero]

It's easy for people like Preckwinkle to increase fees and taxes since they make 125k+ per year (if not more), on top of their endless perks and massive pensions.

 

What baffles me is how users on this board are ok with it, and worse, DEFEND it...because obviously they must be rich or something and it doesn't affect them. *Every year* taxes and fees of some form or another have gone up -- hell, what's tax on a cell phone bill these days, approaching 20%? (Yes, TWENTY percent, you read that right). Yet in light of that, budget holes CONTINUE to get bigger...somehow.

 

It's absurd. In a time when the cost of living is skyrocketing, payrolls are down, inflation is increasing at a higher rate than standard pay raises to keep up with it...they add taxes and fees on top of other taxes and fees, because you know..."f*** the people...after all, most of them are so dumb they'll just reelect us anyway".

 

Maybe if they hadn't hired 1000+ people they didn't need in the first place, we wouldn't have to worry about making up for the money they lost over the last X years.

 

Amen.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

It's easy for people like Preckwinkle to increase fees and taxes since they make 125k+ per year (if not more), on top of their endless perks and massive pensions.

 

What baffles me is how users on this board are ok with it, and worse, DEFEND it...because obviously they must be rich or something and it doesn't affect them. *Every year* taxes and fees of some form or another have gone up -- hell, what's tax on a cell phone bill these days, approaching 20%? (Yes, TWENTY percent, you read that right). Yet in light of that, budget holes CONTINUE to get bigger...somehow.

 

It's absurd. In a time when the cost of living is skyrocketing, payrolls are down, inflation is increasing at a higher rate than standard pay raises to keep up with it...they add taxes and fees on top of other taxes and fees, because you know..."f*** the people...after all, most of them are so dumb they'll just reelect us anyway".

 

Maybe if they hadn't hired 1000+ people they didn't need in the first place, we wouldn't have to worry about making up for the money they lost over the last X years.

 

It is because I am not OK with the way the city and county were run, that I am cheering for having leaders in there now who are actually doing something about it. You, who claims to understand business, should get that - Daley and Stroger (and their predecessors and cohorts) ran their budgets into the toilet, just as SS2K5 said. Do you really expect the new mayor or chairperson to be able to turn it around on a dime in a year? Come back to reality.

 

You can choose to say that Emmanuel and Preckwinkle are the same as Daley and Stroger... but you'd not only be obviously and factually wrong, you'd also be supporting the very thing you don't like.

 

[bmags]

You act like they are raising taxes and pocketing the cash.

 

check this out, government jobs are falling. Things are being cut. Services still need to be provided for millions of citizens with less and less money.

[Y2HH]

You act like they are raising taxes and pocketing the cash.

 

I act like no such thing.

 

It simply doesn't end...every year they're raising something. I'm not saying they aren't trying to fix things...but there couldn't be a worse time to be raising taxes on people. Some people are barely scraping by and now they get more fees and taxes -- that's perfect to send even MORE people into foreclosure on property, and force others to have to move out of apartments they can no longer afford to rent.

[Y2HH]

It is because I am not OK with the way the city and county were run, that I am cheering for having leaders in there now who are actually doing something about it. You, who claims to understand business, should get that - Daley and Stroger (and their predecessors and cohorts) ran their budgets into the toilet, just as SS2K5 said. Do you really expect the new mayor or chairperson to be able to turn it around on a dime in a year? Come back to reality.

 

You can choose to say that Emmanuel and Preckwinkle are the same as Daley and Stroger... but you'd not only be obviously and factually wrong, you'd also be supporting the very thing you don't like.

 

First, I said and maintained for years that Daley and Stroger were running the ship into the ground, while many of you defended how well Daley was running the City. I don't know if you were one of the many that did, but a LOT of people on this board thought Daley was awesome for Chicago. And I guess in some dimension of insanity, you could say that in the short term he did well for the City, only he left record budget deficits and debt in his wake when all was said and done.

 

I never said they're the same. But I also know some of the games they're playing -- like Emmanuel adding "hundreds of police" -- when in fact that's not what he did, as in reality he added LESS THAN ZERO. This is just one outrageous example of what he's doing while claiming to be doing to opposite...so I'm going to just "go out on a limb" and assume he's doing more shady s***, too. Oh, and my benefit for actually cutting police officers off the roles and saving money is that my taxes get to GO UP?

 

Yes, they're cutting...and also raising fees and taxes to the point that people can't afford to save anything.

 

I went back and highlighted/underlined that because it seems lost on many of you.

 

Stop defending it.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Y2HH

[bmags]

I understand. But it is a balancing act. These are tough decisions and I think Rahm is doing a fair job of taking it on. He's been in office about 8 months. The true fights haven't even begun.

[Y2HH]

I understand. But it is a balancing act. These are tough decisions and I think Rahm is doing a fair job of taking it on. He's been in office about 8 months. The true fights haven't even begun.

 

I make a great living -- in my opinion anyway. If I had to guess, I'd say I probably make double what the average person makes in/around Chicago -- and if these nickle/dime tax hikes, fees, toll road hikes, etc. year after year are affecting me -- I damn well know they're affecting others even worse.

 

Maybe f***face Rham and Preckwinkle need to start off by cutting their own salaries and everyone that works near them before they CUT MY f***ING SALARY in some form of tax increases and fees year after year. Can I afford this? Sure. But I know most average people can't...and unlike a payroll tax -- these taxes affect everyone, including those that CANNOT afford it anymore.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Y2HH

[NorthSideSox72]

I make a great living -- in my opinion anyway. If I had to guess, I'd say I probably make double what the average person makes in/around Chicago -- and if these nickle/dime tax hikes, fees, toll road hikes, etc. year after year are affecting me -- I damn well know they're affecting others even worse.

 

Maybe f***face Rham and Preckwinkle need to start off by cutting their own salaries and everyone that works near them before they CUT MY f***ING SALARY in some form of tax increases and fees year after year. Can I afford this? Sure. But I know most average people can't...and unlike a payroll tax -- these taxes affect everyone, including those that CANNOT afford it anymore.

Actually, they have done that. They have both said they will take the same number of unpaid days that they are asking their boards/employees to do. They will still make more than others do, but they are making an effort to share the burden. And given the level of responsibility, and the hours they put in, I have no problem with either of them making a very good salary.

 

The one thing that neither of them are doing much about though, not enough at least, is the pension problem. They are doing a little, which is more than the state can say, but they are not making the really difficult decisions on that topic yet.

 

[bmags]

how much do you think market rate would be for running a city of of dozens of thousands of workers and 6 million people. Probably more than a mid level software engineer.

[NorthSideSox72]

how much do you think market rate would be for running a city of of dozens of thousands of workers and 6 million people. Probably more than a mid level software engineer.

And should be.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

I love that the average middle class American, the people most in need of assistance in this s***ty, s***ty economy (and who are probably the key to getting us out of this mess) are being nickle and dimed by little bulls*** taxes and fees to cover the failures of government, all while gigantic corporations and industries in general are being provided with tax relief and business incentives (if not straight up cash payments) to stick around and/or stay in business.

 

Makes total sense.

[NorthSideSox72]

I love that the average middle class American, the people most in need of assistance in this s***ty, s***ty economy (and who are probably the key to getting us out of this mess) are being nickle and dimed by little bulls*** taxes and fees to cover the failures of government, all while gigantic corporations and industries in general are being provided with tax relief and business incentives (if not straight up cash payments) to stick around and/or stay in business.

 

Makes total sense.

I agree, but I am more focused on the problems of the uneven tax structures on business.

 

But, about the CME and CBOE tax breaks that I assume you are referring to... my first reaction when they started whining was that they were just making a play for more money because they know the city and state are desperate to keep them around. And that is still true. However, now that I see how the tax structure had been working for them, they actually do have a legitimate beef. Most Illinois businesses, if they do transactions outside of the state, are only taxed on the full rate for in-state transactions. But for CME/CBOT and CBOE/CSX, for electronic trades, they were being taxed full rate on all, even though they were being materially executed out of state. The new proposed law changes that to put them on even ground in that sense.

 

[Harry Chappas]

Until government figures out how to deal with pensions the way the private sector did 30 years ago any cost saving conversation is complete bulls*** and there is no debate

 

[southsider2k5]

You act like they are raising taxes and pocketing the cash.

 

check this out, government jobs are falling. Things are being cut. Services still need to be provided for millions of citizens with less and less money.

 

Which is why Daley and company is to blame. They spent like idiots and racked up all kinds of debt when things were good. Now they can't do it anymore. With a little more responsibility earlier, things wouldn't be as bad today.

[southsider2k5]

First, I said and maintained for years that Daley and Stroger were running the ship into the ground, while many of you defended how well Daley was running the City. I don't know if you were one of the many that did, but a LOT of people on this board thought Daley was awesome for Chicago. And I guess in some dimension of insanity, you could say that in the short term he did well for the City, only he left record budget deficits and debt in his wake when all was said and done.

 

I never said they're the same. But I also know some of the games they're playing -- like Emmanuel adding "hundreds of police" -- when in fact that's not what he did, as in reality he added LESS THAN ZERO. This is just one outrageous example of what he's doing while claiming to be doing to opposite...so I'm going to just "go out on a limb" and assume he's doing more shady s***, too. Oh, and my benefit for actually cutting police officers off the roles and saving money is that my taxes get to GO UP?

 

Yes, they're cutting...and also raising fees and taxes to the point that people can't afford to save anything.

 

I went back and highlighted/underlined that because it seems lost on many of you.

 

Stop defending it.

 

Bingo. I could make things around my house look a lot better by spending way more than I earned which is exactly what happened in Illinois at the City, County, and State levels.

[Y2HH]

how much do you think market rate would be for running a city of of dozens of thousands of workers and 6 million people. Probably more than a mid level software engineer.

 

If they were doing it on their own, you'd have a point. Alas, let's stop pretending they are. Rham has an ENTIRE staff of people that help do such things, such as "running a city of dozens of thousands of workers and 6 million people". What you said is a joke...because you make it sound like they do it all by their poor little selves...when in fact they have a HUGE staff on hand to do these everyday tasks you're pretending they do themselves.

 

And not for nothing, but this totally dodges the actual issue at hand -- the very issue I was bringing up in the first place.

 

I reiterate -- they have the money so these nickle/dime increases and fees don't affect them.

 

A mid-level software engineer doesn't -- which was sort of my original point. Even if they're sacrificing in the face of everyone else having to sacrifice, they still make so much that it doesn't affect them.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Y2HH

[bmags]

Come on. A ceo doesn't do it all by themselves either. They have a whole staff helping them out. But they are still considered to be running the company. But, for example, Daley is making a pretty, pretty, pretty penny now as a consultant. Way more than that salary could pay him in 5 years.

[Y2HH]

Come on. A ceo doesn't do it all by themselves either. They have a whole staff helping them out. But they are still considered to be running the company. But, for example, Daley is making a pretty, pretty, pretty penny now as a consultant. Way more than that salary could pay him in 5 years.

 

And I think we agree in many regards, CEO's make too much, too.

 

Then again, my friend is a CEO of a small company -- and get this -- his employees make more than he does.

 

Again, we can go round-and-round here, my point is, these fees and taxes are to the breaking point of hurting people. Those instituting these increases aren't affected by them...but I have to tell you, a LOT of people are...in very bad ways right now.

 

It's just a never ending cycle of increases on everything under the sun...and it's absurd...but what's more absurd to me is you all sit here defending them.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Y2HH

[bigruss]

If they were doing it on their own, you'd have a point. Alas, let's stop pretending they are. Rham has an ENTIRE staff of people that help do such things, such as "running a city of dozens of thousands of workers and 6 million people". What you said is a joke...because you make it sound like they do it all by their poor little selves...when in fact they have a HUGE staff on hand to do these everyday tasks you're pretending they do themselves.

 

And not for nothing, but this totally dodges the actual issue at hand -- the very issue I was bringing up in the first place.

 

I reiterate -- they have the money so these nickle/dime increases and fees don't affect them.

 

A mid-level software engineer doesn't -- WHICH WAS MY f***ING POINT.

Just curious, what would you like to see them do to get the city back on track in terms of deficit while still running the city adequately?

[bigruss]

And I think we agree in many regards, CEO's make too much, too.

 

Then again, my friend is a CEO of a small company -- and get this -- his employees make more than he does.

 

Again, we can go round-and-round here, my point is, these fees and taxes are to the breaking point of hurting people. Those instituting these increases aren't affected by them...but I have to tell you, a LOT of people are...in very bad ways right now.

 

It's just a never ending cycle of increases on everything under the sun...and it's absurd...but what's more absurd to me is you all sit here defending them.

And I agree with this, but how else do we get to a somewhat reasonable deficit that the budget can handle? You can cut a ton, but at some point you need to raise money too.