I'm in no way a supporter of it, there's too much stuff like the estate tax that has no benefit other than lining pockets. I have to read more about the pass through tax, cause it might not help the real smallest businesses anyway. Some of the poor/middle class will receive tax cuts, but those will come at the expense of the other half of the middle class that will see tax increases, especially if they itemize. A big wash.

 

In the end, it seems like a standard conservative plan. Give more money to the people and companies that employ the everyday citizens. With more money, they will create more jobs and have more production and stimulate the economy, at least that's the rationale. In some situations it works but in many it just creates a bigger income gap as they just keep the money to themselves.

This seems to be what the people who like it are touting. In theory it makes sense. More people working, more jobs healthier economy. The whole tax cuts that disappear in 2026 will be offset by more people employed and no businesses in the country.

 

It will be interesting to see if it happens.

Damn I am shocked this passed.

 

Remember when the ACA passed when the president had both the house and senate? Oh well, in 2018, dems will take back both and then we begin the cycle of obstructionism all over again.

 

America, so predictable, so pathetic.

Edited December 2, 20178 yr by KagakuOtoko

This seems to be what the people who like it are touting. In theory it makes sense. More people working, more jobs healthier economy. The whole tax cuts that disappear in 2026 will be offset by more people employed and no businesses in the country.

 

It will be interesting to see if it happens.

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

Damn I am shocked this passed.

 

Remember when the ACA passed when the president had both the house and senate? Oh well, in 2018, dems will take back both and then we begin the cycle of obstructionism all over again.

 

America, so predictable, so pathetic.

 

Exactly. People are discussing the changes in this tax bill come 2025 like they matter, which they wont. A new liberal tax bill will be voted in way before then.

 

Exactly. People are discussing the changes in this tax bill come 2025 like they matter, which they wont. A new liberal tax bill will be voted in way before then.

 

People thought Trump had no chance to win the presidency, myself included. I will never underestimate the American voter again.

 

Now how will he spin this to his base that's it's actually good for them? Maybe they will just lap it up like the good dogs they are?

 

Maybe Trump vetoes it because it's not his version of the bill?

Everyone understands we are heading into another recession again right? I just don’t get these people.

Everyone understands we are heading into another recession again right? I just don’t get these people.

 

How do we take advantage and get rich?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

Before this is ultimately passed, Barrack Obams needs to do people a favor and give a speech touting trickle down economics.. this will be DOA 5 minutes later.

 

What a rouse. but these politicians won't have to worry about funding their campaigns anymore.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

I don't recall this type of massive tax overall ever happening, let alone repeating it over and over again.

Edited December 2, 20178 yr by ptatc

How do we take advantage and get rich?

Short the f*** out of bitcoin.

 

After the trip up the gains we are going to see start moving your money into your mattress.

I don't recall this type of massive tax overall ever happening, let alone repreating it over and over again.

Well it’s not the largest ever. And it’s very similar to Reagan and Bush

 

Reagan’s cuts were 2 or 3 times as large and today would add almost 7 trillion to the deficit.

Edited December 2, 20178 yr by RockRaines

So....is now the time to throw more money into the stock market?

Well it’s not the largest ever. And it’s very similar to Reagan and Bush.

So I guess the question is was the economy better during those times as opposed to the other times.

 

I read that the debt increased more during the obama administration than any of the others. Is it not true of the Reeagan era.

Edited December 2, 20178 yr by ptatc

I don't recall this type of massive tax overall ever happening, let alone repeating it over and over again.

It is the philosophy that making the rich richer will benefit everyone. That they will just pass this new found money along. It would be like a drug dealer giving Charlie Sheen cocaine and telling him to hold it for someone else. It never has happened, isn't happening, and will never happen. Cutting corporate taxes will give everyone a raise? 5% of the S&P 500 companies paid no taxes. Trump hasn't paid taxes for 15 years, boasts of being worth $10 billion. Is he passing down his money to the little guy?

 

This is all about keeping their donors happy. But, like anything else, it's the sum of your parts is what counts. Making your poor, poorer, your sick, sicker, doesn't make America great again. The nerve they had actually going on twitter asking what you would do with your $4,000 raise, was incomprehensible.

 

What ever happened to republicans and the deficit?

 

 

So I guess the question is was the economy better during those times as opposed to the other times.

 

I read that the debt increased more during the obama administration than any of the others. Is it not true of the Reeagan era.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_...tes_public_debt

 

Chart at the top is helpful. Debt will shoot up in recessions/depressions and wars. You can see the 80s debt ride up due to decreased revenue and military spending, dip as a surplus from rising revenues occurs in 90s then increase from new wars and decreased revenue.

 

Then shoots up in 09 due to a huge drop in revenue.

 

But the rising debt in 80s/90s was rising less due to circumstances (war/recessions) and more due to policy.

It is the philosophy that making the rich richer will benefit everyone. That they will just pass this new found money along. It would be like a drug dealer giving Charlie Sheen cocaine and telling him to hold it for someone else. It never has happened, isn't happening, and will never happen. Cutting corporate taxes will give everyone a raise? 5% of the S&P 500 companies paid no taxes. Trump hasn't paid taxes for 15 years, boasts of being worth $10 billion. Is he passing down his money to the little guy?

 

This is all about keeping their donors happy. But, like anything else, it's the sum of your parts is what counts. Making your poor, poorer, your sick, sicker, doesn't make America great again. The nerve they had actually going on twitter asking what you would do with your $4,000 raise, was incomprehensible.

 

What ever happened to republicans and the deficit?

To be honest I really dont care about making the rich richer. Ive been around enough athletes and owners to know tnat is a different world. My concern is the health of the economy of the country. Countries such as Greece and others are really struggling. Having more people employed would be a bigger concern than tax cuts in general.

 

I don't know enough about the economics to know if this will work or not but the goal seems to be a good one.

 

As I've said before the politics of this type makes me sick as well but something needs to be done to improve the overall economy.

To be honest I really dont care about making the rich richer. Ive been around enough athletes and owners to know tnat is a different world. My concern is the health of the economy of the country. Countries such as Greece and others are really struggling. Having more people employed would be a bigger concern than tax cuts in general.

 

I don't know enough about the economics to know if this will work or not but the goal seems to be a good one.

 

As I've said before the politics of this type makes me sick as well but something needs to be done to improve the overall economy.

What’s wrong with the economy?

 

Also athletes are not even on the same planet with the wealthy controlling this bill.

The idea of supply side tax cuts have definitely been tried before work the same job/wage growth promises as this bill that never materialized, but the wealthy did get more wealthy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_...tes_public_debt

 

Chart at the top is helpful. Debt will shoot up in recessions/depressions and wars. You can see the 80s debt ride up due to decreased revenue and military spending, dip as a surplus from rising revenues occurs in 90s then increase from new wars and decreased revenue.

 

Then shoots up in 09 due to a huge drop in revenue.

 

But the rising debt in 80s/90s was rising less due to circumstances (war/recessions) and more due to policy.

Thanks. That is a good simple way to look at it. The comments about the debt not being high relative to other developed countries is a good sign.

Edited December 2, 20178 yr by ptatc

Well, I'd say that it actually is perfectly in line with modern conservative philosophy to enrich the wealthy at the expense of everyone else, but there are more ideologies than American conservatism or liberalism. Maybe just straight up plutocracy more than anything, really.

 

The bill doesn't really include anything you'd see in a modern liberal tax plan.

 

It sure as sh** was bald-faced plutocracy. It wasn't crafted by the Republicans on behalf of their constituents, but by the Kochs, Mercers, and their ilk via proxy. The disapproval of this bill across the board is high. (liberals, conservatives, everybody)

 

What’s wrong with the economy?

 

Also athletes are not even on the same planet with the wealthy controlling this bill.

The whole rising debt recently would seem to be a long term problem for the economy. However, the charts and comments from the previous post is a little reassuring. The Illinois situation of debt increasing is worrisome. People and businesses are leaving in droves. Its not happening for the country at that scale but it does concern me.

 

That was my point about the athletes and owners. Even that world is totally beyond my comprehension.

Edited December 2, 20178 yr by ptatc

Cutting 400 million from Medicare and adding over 1 trillion to the debt concerns me more.

Cutting 400 million from Medicare and adding over 1 trillion to the debt concerns me more.

I agree the debt rising is a big concern. That is what I stated earlier. That is the primary issue for tax plans. Not spending more than you generate.

I agree the debt rising is a big concern. That is what I stated earlier. That is the primary issue for tax plans. Not spending more than you generate.

I also don’t agree with making it cheaper for larger corporations to do business. Your cuts should be to make small business more competitive with the low cost low margin corporations.

Thanks. That is a good simple way to look at it. The comments about the debt not being high relative to other developed countries is a good sign.

 

I think the thing that I find most irresponsible after years of frankly throttling the economy over debt concerns is now is the time in the cycle where you should do that, instead when debt explodes during recession (as it should) people freak out about it then.

 

I’m also somewhat surprised how much more the GOP seemed to care about the Corp tax rate than the personal taxes side of the bill. I expected a giveaway of a tax bill, but the gospel that surrounded the 20% Corp rate meant really ridiculous pay fors coming from middle class that I didn’t expect.

 

Essentially what you have to root for is the dividends being high enough to prop up shareholders from caring about the increased labor costs so wages can finally grow. With a trillion dollar stimulus you should see some of that but it will be interesting to see how much the fed fights against it with their own policies.