Financial News

[caulfield12]

When you pulling out?

 

I have a co-worker who has put in a couple hundred thousand pretty early. He needs to pull the plug now.

 

If you’re already worth $2-3 million, that’s a more legitimate bet, like hedging with your portfolio by investing in gold.

 

If that was all of his investment money, that’s pretty darned crazy...hope he doesn’t have a wife and kids depending on the ultimate success of such a move.

 

As with most bubbles, most people will get too greedy or arrive too late to the party...hold on a day too long, and those eye popping returns won’t be available any longer and the bottom will fall out.

[StrangeSox]

The GOP's latest idea:

 

When their tax plan to shovel money to businesses and the rich inevitably blows a hole in the budget, build in automatic spending cuts!

 

Several GOP senators coming out of today's lunch talking about the idea of an auto spending cut trigger instead of a tax increase trigger if growth doesn't hit target

— Phil Mattingly (@Phil_Mattingly) November 29, 2017

 

[RockRaines]

If you’re already worth $2-3 million, that’s a more legitimate bet, like hedging with your portfolio by investing in gold.

 

If that was all of his investment money, that’s pretty darned crazy...hope he doesn’t have a wife and kids depending on the ultimate success of such a move.

 

As with most bubbles, most people will get too greedy or arrive too late to the party...hold on a day too long, and those eye popping returns won’t be available any longer and the bottom will fall out.

Personally I think the big dogs will get wind, pull out, and leave the regular people holding pennies

[southsider2k5]

It fell 20% intraday today, peaking near $11500, and falling into the mid $9000's.

[Balta1701]

Senate tax package passes Filibuster test on 52-48 party line vote.

[StrangeSox]

Rubio says their 1.4T tax cut for the rich is just the first step before gutting social security and Medicare, because deficits

 

https://twitter.com/GlennKesslerWP/status/9...src=twsrc%5Etfw

[StrangeSox]

It Started as a Tax Cut. Now It Could Change American Life.

 

Some of this re-engineering is straight out of the traditional Republican playbook. Corporate taxes, along with those on wealthy Americans, would be slashed on the presumption that when people in penthouses get relief, the benefits flow down to basement tenements.

 

Some measures are barely connected to the realm of taxation, such as the lifting of a 1954 ban on political activism by churches and the conferring of a new legal right for fetuses in the House bill — both on the wish list of the evangelical right.

 

With a potentially far-reaching dimension, elements in both the House and Senate bills could constrain the ability of states and local governments to levy their own taxes, pressuring them to limit spending on health care, education, public transportation and social services. In their longstanding battle to shrink government, Republicans have found in the tax bill a vehicle to broaden the fight beyond Washington.

 

The result is a behemoth piece of legislation that could widen American economic inequality while diminishing the power of local communities to marshal relief for vulnerable people — especially in high-tax states like California and New York, which, not coincidentally, tend to vote Democratic.

 

Economists and tax experts are overwhelmingly skeptical that the bills in the House and Senate can generate meaningful job growth and economic expansion. Many view the legislation not as a product of genuine deliberation, but as a transfer of wealth to corporations and affluent individuals — both generous purveyors of campaign contributions. By 2027, people making $40,000 to $50,000 would pay a combined $5.3 billion more in taxes, while the group earning $1 million or more would get a $5.8 billion cut, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation and the Congressional Budget Office.

 

This will also be used to further cut the social services that the $40-$50k group relies on in the name of a "balanced budget."

[StrangeSox]

Ahead of Vote, Promised Treasury Analysis of Tax Bill Proves Elusive

 

WASHINGTON — In pitching the $1.5 trillion tax overhaul, Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, has said repeatedly that the plan will pay for itself through a surge of economic growth and that over 100 people in Treasury are “working around the clock on running scenarios for us.”

 

Mr. Mnuchin has promised that Treasury will release its analysis in full. Yet, just one day before the full Senate prepares to vote on a sweeping tax rewrite, the administration has yet to produce the type of economic analysis that it is citing as a reason to pass the tax cut.

 

Those inside Treasury’s Office of Tax Policy, which Mr. Mnuchin has credited with running the models, say they have been largely shut out of the process and are not working on the type of detailed analysis that he has mentioned. An economist at the Office of Tax Analysis, who spoke on the condition of anonymity so as not to jeopardize his job, said Treasury had not released a “dynamic” analysis showing that the tax plan would be paid for with economic growth because one did not exist.

 

This bill remains deeply unpopular with the American public for pretty obvious reasons, and yet it's got a better-than-50/50 chance of passing because wealthy political donors want even more money.

[Dick Allen]

How will you spend your $4,000 "raise"

Major companies including Cisco, Pfizer and Coca-Cola say they'll turn over most gains from proposed corporate tax cuts to their shareholders, undercutting President Donald Trump's promise that his plan will create jobs and boost wages for the middle class

 

[Balta1701]

The bolded part in that last section sounds very far from "changing american life". The post is literally writing it as "scary big number sounds scary aren't you scared". How many taxpayers are expected to be in the 40-50k band? Right now that's something like 10% of taxpayers. a $5 billion tax increase on ~12 million people is an increase of $500/year. That's not pleasant, but not going to "Change American Life". If it's phased in over several years which it would be, most of the posters here wouldn't even realize their federal taxes went up.

 

[StrangeSox]

The opening portion explains the far-reaching effects of the bill which go beyond the individual financial impact. They're cramming things like defining life as beginning at conception, hurting higher education (taxing tuition waives), openly politicizing places of worship and eliminating health care for millions into the bill.

 

e: given that a lot of posters here live in Illinois, we're going to feel a much bigger impact from this tax-cut-for-millionaires bill with the removal of SALT deductions. And it's still worth pointing out that Republicans are planning to hike taxes on middle class Americans (the $40-50k range is right around the median household income) in order to partially finance tax cuts for millionaires.

Edited November 30, 2017 by StrangeSox

[Dam8610]

The opening portion explains the far-reaching effects of the bill which go beyond the individual financial impact. They're cramming things like defining life as beginning at conception, hurting higher education (taxing tuition waives), openly politicizing places of worship and eliminating health care for millions into the bill.

 

e: given that a lot of posters here live in Illinois, we're going to feel a much bigger impact from this tax-cut-for-millionaires bill with the removal of SALT deductions. And it's still worth pointing out that Republicans are planning to hike taxes on middle class Americans (the $40-50k range is right around the median household income) in order to partially finance tax cuts for millionaires.

 

Hopefully someone will challenge the validity of those provisions of the bill and get the whole thing thrown out if it passes.

[StrangeSox]

Hopefully someone will challenge the validity of those provisions of the bill and get the whole thing thrown out if it passes.

 

Who knows what'll happen when the Senate bill gets it Byrd bath or what'll happen when the House and Senate go into reconciliation to hammer out the differences between the chambers.

 

 

McCain is a yes on the bill. I've zero doubt this thing passes. There's far too much pressure from the donor class to get this done, and they need something to show for their majority politically.

[pettie4sox]

Senate tax package passes Filibuster test on 52-48 party line vote.

 

Gotta pray some Senators have brains in their heads and squash this. If they pass this, god help us all.

Edited November 30, 2017 by KagakuOtoko

[Dick Allen]

Mnuchin said the repeal of the Estate tax will mostly help rich people t. Like this was even a question? Overall, it's really not that much of the tax pool anyway, and I personally will benefit greatly from its repeal, but why? Isn't that at least a small token you could throw out there as "we aren't catering to the rich"?

[StrangeSox]

Mnuchin said the repeal of the Estate tax will mostly help rich people t. Like this was even a question? Overall, it's really not that much of the tax pool anyway, and I personally will benefit greatly from its repeal, but why? Isn't that at least a small token you could throw out there as "we aren't catering to the rich"?

 

This is why:

 

 

The entire bill caters to the rich. That's the whole point of it.

[Dick Allen]

This is why:

 

 

The entire bill caters to the rich. That's the whole point of it.

Of course it does, and for you Bears fans, the repeal means the McCaskeys will own the Bears until you die.

[caulfield12]

The bolded part in that last section sounds very far from "changing american life". The post is literally writing it as "scary big number sounds scary aren't you scared". How many taxpayers are expected to be in the 40-50k band? Right now that's something like 10% of taxpayers. a $5 billion tax increase on ~12 million people is an increase of $500/year. That's not pleasant, but not going to "Change American Life". If it's phased in over several years which it would be, most of the posters here wouldn't even realize their federal taxes went up.

 

Isn’t that also taking into account those relatively likely to lose major health care benefits?

[pettie4sox]

They donate a pittance by their standards and get that huge ROI. =)

[caulfield12]

Mnuchin said the repeal of the Estate tax will mostly help rich people t. Like this was even a question? Overall, it's really not that much of the tax pool anyway, and I personally will benefit greatly from its repeal, but why? Isn't that at least a small token you could throw out there as "we aren't catering to the rich"?

 

SoxTalk admins will hit you up for site donations if they have reason to believe you’re worth $5.5 to $11 million. JK.

 

It’s pretty amazing that if you go back to the late 90’s, we used to have to worry about having to take a measly $10,000 per year in estate distributions per child to help avoid piling up $1+ million plus estates. Then Bush bumped it way up.

 

Now it’s only the top two tenths of one percent of filing households in the country, with a disproportionate amount of gains not going to family farms or small businesses but the billionaire class.

 

The actual amount of “small” inherited family farms that would be impacted in America at those rates would be in the single digits per year.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Republicans may be scheduling a vote on the tax bill as soon as tonight.

 

There's still no final tax bill, nor is there a final CBO, JCT, or Treasury analysis on the impact of the bill.

[NorthSideSox72]

There's still no final tax bill, nor is there a final CBO, JCT, or Treasury analysis on the impact of the bill.

 

The whole thing is proceeding very much like ObamaCare.

 

[Balta1701]

The whole thing is proceeding very much like ObamaCare.

Except McCain's ok with it.

[StrangeSox]

Except McCain's ok with it.

 

And Murkowski and Collins support.

 

They're voting to end debate right now, but there are three holdouts who are trying to get the bill changed mid-vote. Flake, Corker, and Johnson.

 

Remember how upset McCain was about things not following "regular order" and how he's done absolutely nothing to actually back that up? This is as far away from "regular order" as you can get, especially for major legislation that will impact the whole economy and every individual. This is not how good public policy gets crafted and passed.

 

 

edit: they all flipped, debate ended

Edited November 30, 2017 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

The tax increase triggers didn't survive Byrd, so now they're trying to rewrite the bill substantially on the floor to either automatically increase corporate taxes over time or come up with an AMT for C corps and high earning individuals to raise a few hundred billion.

 

Maybe it would be better to carefully write and consider legislation that affects every individual and company in the country before bringing it to a vote?