As determining age becomes more and more important, I wonder what testing is available to determine exactly what age someone is.

yes, yes and i have seen how these over hyped prospects, especially pitchers, have turned out and they arent worth the ridiculous financial risk. do you think the red sox wish they paid dice k still?

 

How about that record setting Jose Contreras contract? I think the White Sox aren't complaining about it.

of course i dont know for a fact, nobody does, heck he probably doesnt even know. im not making absurd unfounded claims either. i do know what age the organization believes he is and its not 21 and i will leave it at that.

 

is it so absurd to think his age is not 21? i think its more absurd to think that he is 21.

 

So who in the organization believes he is what age, exactly?

An obvious alternative is to think about what the Red Sox might have spent that money on had they not signed Daisuke. There were a number of candidates. Johan is the obvious answer. They could also have been able to prevent the Yanks from signing either CC or Tex last offseason if their offers had been $20 mil over 8 years higher.

 

now this is smart thinking

How about that record setting Jose Contreras contract? I think the White Sox aren't complaining about it.

Technically speaking that contract as well as the one the Sox gave Jose were complete busts. And I'd be hard pressed to see anyone put together any evidence to dispute that.

 

Contreras had one above average 20-25 game stretch in his career and outside of that he was either a league average pitcher to a below average pitcher (depending on the season).

Technically speaking that contract as well as the one the Sox gave Jose were complete busts. And I'd be hard pressed to see anyone put together any evidence to dispute that.

 

Contreras had one above average 20-25 game stretch in his career and outside of that he was either a league average pitcher to a below average pitcher (depending on the season).

By far the worst contract Kenny Williams has ever given out, the new deal he signed after the '05 season started in '07 effectively guaranteeing him 4 years of pay. The Sox got a big pile of suck back on their $29M investment.

 

08/04/05 - 06/29/06: 25 GS, 17-1, 2.87 ERA, 1.13 WHIP (3-1, 3.09 ERA, 0.86 WHIP in the postseason)

 

07/01/06 - 08/29/09: 87 GS, 27-45, 5.19 ERA, 1.45 WHIP

By far the worst contract Kenny Williams has ever given out, the new deal he signed after the '05 season started in '07 effectively guaranteeing him 4 years of pay. The Sox got a big pile of suck back on their $29M investment.

 

08/04/05 - 06/29/06: 25 GS, 17-1, 2.87 ERA, 1.13 WHIP (3-1, 3.09 ERA, 0.86 WHIP in the postseason)

 

07/01/06 - 08/29/09: 87 GS, 27-45, 5.19 ERA, 1.45 WHIP

To me, it's somewhat difficult to criticize the contract, despite what a disaster it turned out to be. At the time the deal was handed out, Jose was dominant, with little or no signs of regression. I guess one could cite Jose's age as a key reason why he was likely to regress, but given the way he was pitching at the time (pure stuff), it appeared as though he was defying age at the time anyways. Even had we waited until the beginning of 06', the way Jose pitched in his first several starts indicated that he would continue his dominant stretch, and was deserved of the type of contract he was handed at the end of 05' anyways.

 

Personally, I think the trouble mainly stemmed when Jose was asked to vary his arm slots. I don't recall him doing so during his dominant run in 05', and it doesn't seem like he started battling his control and inconsistency with the forkball until the multiple arm slots began.

To me, it's somewhat difficult to criticize the contract, despite what a disaster it turned out to be. At the time the deal was handed out, Jose was dominant, with little or no signs of regression. I guess one could cite Jose's age as a key reason why he was likely to regress, but given the way he was pitching at the time (pure stuff), it appeared as though he was defying age at the time anyways. Even had we waited until the beginning of 06', the way Jose pitched in his first several starts indicated that he would continue his dominant stretch, and was deserved of the type of contract he was handed at the end of 05' anyways.

 

Personally, I think the trouble mainly stemmed when Jose was asked to vary his arm slots. I don't recall him doing so during his dominant run in 05', and it doesn't seem like he started battling his control and inconsistency with the forkball until the multiple arm slots began.

 

 

I thought he wanted to do it more because that was more of how he worked in Cuba?

I thought he wanted to do it more because that was more of how he worked in Cuba?

I didn't see him pitch enough in Cuba to know if that is the case or not. I thought it was Cooper's idea, to be honest with you.

I didn't see him pitch enough in Cuba to know if that is the case or not. I thought it was Cooper's idea, to be honest with you.

Actually, I remember an interview where they said El Duque told Contreras to pitch more like a Cuban by dropping down and changing his angles more.

Actually, I remember an interview where they said El Duque told Contreras to pitch more like a Cuban by dropping down and changing his angles more.

Well I seem to remember him using primarily an overhand slot in 05'. Maybe I am mistaken.

Well I seem to remember him using primarily an overhand slot in 05'. Maybe I am mistaken.

 

The second half of 05 was when he came out from all sides and started showing sidearm a lot more. It wasnt a dominant part of his repertoire until 06, and it worked pretty well until he hurt himself in 06(July?), and then he was never "right" again.

 

To me it was a great way for him to offset his over-the-top pitches, but he fell in love with it and went to it too often, and that was something that people said was his problem in New York(falling in love with his breaking pitches and not using his FB enough).

Edited October 27, 200916 yr by KyYlE23

The second half of 05 was when he came out from all sides and started showing sidearm a lot more. It wasnt a dominant part of his repertoire until 06, and it worked pretty well until he hurt himself in 06(July?), and then he was never "right" again.

 

To me it was a great way for him to offset his over-the-top pitches, but he fell in love with it and went to it too often, and that was something that people said was his problem in New York(falling in love with his breaking pitches and not using his FB enough).

 

He started dropping down when his fastball lost 5 mph to get movement to compensate for the lack of velocity.

He started dropping down when his fastball lost 5 mph to get movement to compensate for the lack of velocity.

When he first started dropping down he had the same velocity he's always had. Than he had his bought with sciatica or however you spell it and after that his velocity started to drop.

 

It didn't have anything to do with his trying to gain movement. He just wanted to show people another arm angle on his fastball, the problem was he didn't have any other pitch in his arsenal from that arm angle and because of it hitters knew what was coming (a straight fastball).

When he first started dropping down he had the same velocity he's always had. Than he had his bought with sciatica or however you spell it and after that his velocity started to drop.

 

It didn't have anything to do with his trying to gain movement. He just wanted to show people another arm angle on his fastball, the problem was he didn't have any other pitch in his arsenal from that arm angle and because of it hitters knew what was coming (a straight fastball).

For the pitchers out there, how hard is it to throw his full repertoire from a different arm angle? I imagine control would be the issue.

Steve Stone said that Contreras drops down more when his back hurts, or he doesn't have confidence in his back to throw over the top. That's not to say that varying angles isn't part of his game, but he was really struggling to throw over the top this season.

When he first started dropping down he had the same velocity he's always had. Than he had his bought with sciatica or however you spell it and after that his velocity started to drop.

 

It didn't have anything to do with his trying to gain movement. He just wanted to show people another arm angle on his fastball, the problem was he didn't have any other pitch in his arsenal from that arm angle and because of it hitters knew what was coming (a straight fastball).

I always felt like there was one pitch he could throw from side-arm that had a ton of movement on it and then another one that was pretty straight, was I wrong on that?

I always felt like there was one pitch he could throw from side-arm that had a ton of movement on it and then another one that was pretty straight, was I wrong on that?

 

If Jose kept his hand over his wrist when he dropped down, he got a ton of movement down late in the pitch. If he got on the side of the ball, it had a straight sideways movement and was very hittable. It was the thing they had him work on when he went to AAA.

If Jose kept his hand over his wrist when he dropped down, he got a ton of movement down late in the pitch. If he got on the side of the ball, it had a straight sideways movement and was very hittable. It was the thing they had him work on when he went to AAA.

Yeah, when a guy was geared up to see the fastball and got that thing, they had no chance.

Go after Reinier Roibal or Yuniesky Maya or even Yadel Marti for less money. Chapman will be too costly for a

mid-market team such as the White Sox. You can even get 3 or 4 Cuban free agents for the price of Chapman. Young SS Adeiny Hechevarria should be considered. You can have him for 8-10 millions probably. He will be your long term SS. He is only 19.

 

Roibal

http://cubanballplayers.blogspot.com/2009/...-my-second.html

 

Maya

http://cubanballplayers.blogspot.com/2009/...ourth-best.html

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,7511697.story

 

The Aroldis Chapman market is going to be interesting to judge. The Mariners are the latest team to jump seriously into the bidding, possibly hoping to have another front-line arm so they can deal Felix Hernandez before he reaches free agency. The Cubs and White Sox have expressed interest, but it's unclear if they have the resources to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals, Mets, Tigers, Orioles and others for the Cuban with the 100 mph fastball. ...

Go after Reinier Roibal or Yuniesky Maya or even Yadel Marti for less money. Chapman will be too costly for a

mid-market team such as the White Sox. You can even get 3 or 4 Cuban free agents for the price of Chapman. Young SS Adeiny Hechevarria should be considered. You can have him for 8-10 millions probably. He will be your long term SS. He is only 19.

 

Roibal

http://cubanballplayers.blogspot.com/2009/...-my-second.html

 

Maya

http://cubanballplayers.blogspot.com/2009/...ourth-best.html

how about yasser gomez ?

how about yasser gomez ?

 

 

I have doubts he could play CF after playing RF for most of his career. The question is do you want a RF with 0 power but a 300 candidate. He won't be a leadoff hitter. He may bat second.

Dodgers are out of the race. Can't help, but attribute this to a bidding war and the McCourts divorce.

Tribune

While rumors continue to circulate that the Cubs and White Sox are among a handful of teams with interest in Cuban left-handed pitcher Aroldis Chapman, that supposed interest appears lukewarm, at the very most.

 

Chapman is expected to command about $30 million for four years from some team. Among those who have more interest probably would be the Red Sox, Angels, Orioles and perhaps the Braves and Marlins.

 

The White Sox, despite their good relationships with Cubans Jose Contreras and Alexei Ramirez, have budget constraints and a set rotation. Chapman has a different agent than the other two Cubans who played for the Sox.

 

The Cubs also have a tight budget, although are more in need of starting pitching. The Cubs have inquired about Chapman, but seem to be going in other, cheaper directions.