AND THAT'S A WHITE SOX WINNER!!!

[chw42]

Cowley said that Rios liked the boos, it fired him up.

 

Then Buehrle and Putz boo'd him.

 

Classic stuff from Mark.

[RockRaines]

The two walks is really bad.

Pfff, are you kidding me? I suspect you think all hitters should hit 1.000. Bobby had excellent stuff and was getting squeezed. That last pitch sequence was f***ing nasty.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2010 by RockRaines

[Jordan4life_2007]

It's not called the AL, not even CLOSE.

 

Look at his STUFF with your EYES. His slider is FLAT, and his fastball is 89mph. When his stuff is mediocre, he will BE mediocre.

 

Seriously, watch some games when he was in San Diego, or last year when he pitched for us. Look at his STUFF compared to now. It's got NOTHING to do with AL vs NL.

 

I'm not advocating that there isn't a skill difference between the two leagues, but his terrible outing tonight has nothing to do with THAT at all.

 

I've seen both his starts. And obviously his stuff is not up to par. But better hitting teams are going to take advantage of that moreso than bad hitting teams. Pretty simple. And last I checked, the Blue Jays didn't just start hitting well tonight. Jake is going to see better lineups this year than at any point of his career. Does that mean he won't be good? Of course not. But 2007 Jake Peavy he will not be.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Jordan4life

[chw42]

Pfff, are you kidding me? I suspect you think all hitters should hit 1.000. Bobby had excellent stuff and was getting squeezed. That last pitch sequence was f***ing nasty.

 

He was throwing 93. He didn't have the velocity he did yesterday and he didn't have the curve. When he has neither enough velocity on the fastball or the curve, he makes all of very nervous.

 

Jenks has a WHIP around 2 I imagine, that's pretty damn bad for a reliever.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Pfff, are you kidding me? I suspect you think all hitters should hit 1.000. Bobby had excellent stuff and was getting squeezed. That last pitch sequence was f***ing nasty.

 

Bobby's not going to get away with allowing multiple baserunners everytime out. No matter how nasty you think his stuff is.

[heirdog]

The two walks is really bad, especially when you consider that he walked Alex freaking Gonzalez and Jose Bautista.

 

How about giving up an oppo homer with 2 strikes on a guy who was batting .067 coming into the game to blow a save instead of walking two guys and then getting a K on the other team's 3rd hitter and DH to notch the save. Jenks would then definitely rank ahead of Frasor from Toronto.

[RockRaines]

He was throwing 93. He didn't have the velocity he did yesterday and he didn't have the curve. When he has neither enough velocity on the fastball or the curve, he makes all of very nervous.

 

Jenks has a WHIP around 2 I imagine, that's pretty damn bad for a reliever.

Too bad he would never end up with a WHIP around 2. But he may end up with an ERA of 2.25.

 

BTW his WHIP is 1.67 and at its highest in his worst year he was at 1.39. He has had a sub 3 ERA 3 out of his 5 seasons. You continue to worry about things that make no sense, and Bobby will continue to be a very good closer.

[RockRaines]

Bobby's not going to get away with allowing multiple baserunners everytime out. No matter how nasty you think his stuff is.

He wont, but he will allow some once in awhile and the games where they dont turn into runs are great for him. In a good season he will allow around a baserunner an inning if not more.

[caulfield12]

All these things being said, Jenks at 93-94 without secondary stuff is a lot more likely to blow up than at 95-98.

 

He simply has to get either the change or curve across the plate.

 

Still, with Putz, Thornton and Santos, we have much better options than the rest of the teams in the AL. The Twins would certainly use Putz or Thornton before Rauch, and arguably Santos or even Pena/Linebrink.

 

Unless we completely wear it down, our bullpen (overall) should be a strength at all season long.

[heirdog]

Bobby's not going to get away with allowing multiple baserunners everytime out. No matter how nasty you think his stuff is.

 

If his stuff is nasty, I believe he will get away with allowing multiple baserunners to post around a 90% save rate, which is what is expected out of good closers having a good year. I would be more worried if his stuff wasn't nasty. Yes, it would be nice to get his velocity up a bit but Bobby has always had lower velocity in April and a part of May before he gets it going. He looks fine.

[southsider2k5]

Thornton is by far this team's best reliever, but he loses value when he loses his "ability" to come in during the 7th or 8th when a group of lefties come up. Lefties have seemingly no chance against him at all, and if he becomes the "closer" and Ozzie uses him strictly in the 9th, then Randy Williams becomes the main lefty in the pen.

 

As great as Thornton is, I don't think he's ever considered as a closer by the Sox unless they bring in another lefty (or two) capable of being good to great. Putz is very likely next on the list, followed by Pena and then maybe Santos (though thinking of Santos in that manner is scary too...3 or whatever good performances be damned, he's still relatively new to this whole idea of pitching in the major leagues).

 

Perfectly said.

[chw42]

Too bad he would never end up with a WHIP around 2. But he may end up with an ERA of 2.25.

 

BTW his WHIP is 1.67 and at its highest in his worst year he was at 1.39. He has had a sub 3 ERA 3 out of his 5 seasons. You continue to worry about things that make no sense, and Bobby will continue to be a very good closer.

 

A 1.67 is also pretty damn bad and a 1.39 is also bad for a closer.

 

Your closer is supposed to be your best reliever, if Ozzie wasn't so damn fascinated with using Thornton against lefties so much, Matt should definitely be this team's closer.

 

Bobby's no longer a guy you can go to every day because his stuff is so erratic. He no longer has consistent velocity and his curveball might be there 25% of the time. You just can't deal with something like that.

 

If he keeps allowing people on base, his luck is going to run out.

 

Alex Gonzalez was a split second away from walking us off with that foul ball he hit. He was just a bit too quick, if he wasn't, we'd all be b****ing about how bad Jenks is right now, you included.

[chw42]

How about giving up an oppo homer with 2 strikes on a guy who was batting .067 coming into the game to blow a save instead of walking two guys and then getting a K on the other team's 3rd hitter and DH to notch the save. Jenks would then definitely rank ahead of Frasor from Toronto.

 

Nobody said that Frasor was better, because he's probably not.

[witesoxfan]

Pierzynski and Quentin both seem so frenetic up there and seemed to be in a rush to swing the bat as early in the count as possible. It's expected with AJ but it's odd for a high OBP guy like Quentin.

 

A poster over at SouthSideSox did a little research into this. Quentin goes up to the plate and generally looks to hit the 1st or 2nd pitch he sees. Also, his high OBP is inflated quite a bit by his HBP, which isn't a terrible thing; it's just a bit scary because those HBP can occasionally hit small bones, and those break pretty easily.

[Jordan4life_2007]

A 1.67 is also pretty damn bad and a 1.39 is also bad for a closer.

 

Your closer is supposed to be your best reliever, if Ozzie wasn't so damn fascinated with using Thornton against lefties so much, Matt should definitely be this team's closer.

 

Bobby's no longer a guy you can go to every day because his stuff is so erratic. He no longer has consistent velocity and his curveball might be there 25% of the time. You just can't deal with something like that.

 

If he keeps allowing people on base, his luck is going to run out.

 

Alex Gonzalez was a split second away from walking us off with that foul ball he hit. He was just a bit too quick, if he wasn't, we'd all be b****ing about how bad Jenks is right now, you included.

 

I agree with all of this except for the bold. And I really have nothing to say. Wite said basically what I was going to say. That turd face.

[chw42]

I agree with all of this except for the bold. And I really have nothing to say. Wite said basically what I was going to say. That turd face.

 

It really sucks that Boone Logan fizzed out. We haven't had another good left handed reliever since early 08.

 

I think Ozzie should help Bobby out. If there's a lefty leading off the 9th, use Thornton to get him out, then let Bobby get the last out for the save or something. Makes it a lot easier on us and Bobby as well.

Edited April 13, 2010 by chw42

[SoxAce]

Also, his high OBP is inflated quite a bit by his HBP, which isn't a terrible thing

 

He's been doing that for years now ever since Stanford. His OBP being "inflated" is basically his game. He will average about 20+ HBPs per year (also walks at a solid rate) depending on the amount of games he plays. A Craig Biggio with more power, maybe less average.

[heirdog]

A poster over at SouthSideSox did a little research into this. Quentin goes up to the plate and generally looks to hit the 1st or 2nd pitch he sees. Also, his high OBP is inflated quite a bit by his HBP, which isn't a terrible thing; it's just a bit scary because those HBP can occasionally hit small bones, and those break pretty easily.

 

That's interesting. It seems intuitive given his personality that he would be a little less patient than what I thought.

[heirdog]

Nobody said that Frasor was better, because he's probably not.

 

I was just making the point because you mentioned Jenks walked Bautista and Alex Gonzalez. Well Gonzalez would be our top hitter right now with his .350 avg and 4 homers. He's been on a tear and like you or someone else later said, if he's locked in (the near homer), the walk isn't the worst thing. A closer, even the best, will make it interesting from time to time and you are basing Bobby sucking from today's game alone. He hasn't blown a save and looked good in his previous save so it may be too early to write him off. That's all I am saying.

 

You have said that it doesn't matter how nasty Bobby's stuff is if he let's base runners on he will pay the price. Well, if his stuff is nasty, the odds are he won't allow as many base runners on most nights. I would worry less about the walks and worry more if his stuff looked awful. It doesn't.

[chw42]

I was just making the point because you mentioned Jenks walked Bautista and Alex Gonzalez. Well Gonzalez would be our top hitter right now with his .350 avg and 4 homers. He's been on a tear and like you or someone else later said, if he's locked in (the near homer), the walk isn't the worst thing. A closer, even the best, will make it interesting from time to time and you are basing Bobby sucking from today's game alone. He hasn't blown a save and looked good in his previous save so it may be too early to write him off. That's all I am saying.

 

You have said that it doesn't matter how nasty Bobby's stuff is if he let's base runners on he will pay the price. Well, if his stuff is nasty, the odds are he won't allow as many base runners on most nights. I would worry less about the walks and worry more if his stuff looked awful. It doesn't.

 

Bobby does have very good stuff, but the issue with him right now ever since last season is that his stuff isn't consistent. You have a 50% chance to see a dominating Bobby and you have a 50% chance of seeing one like tonight.

 

A closer cannot do this. Good closers don't have it maybe 10-20% of the time, the great ones have it nearly all the time. Bobby's been on the down road ever since 2008 and what we've seen from him thus far isn't encouraging.

[caulfield12]

Jenks looked good against Minnesota?

 

I'm not so sure about that. Those were two pretty shaky saves, although I guess they all look like 1-2-3 innings as far as converted save/save opportunity, which is the bottom line.

[chw42]

Jenks looked good against Minnesota?

 

I'm not so sure about that. Those were two pretty shaky saves, although I guess they all look like 1-2-3 innings as far as converted save/save opportunity, which is the bottom line.

 

Jenks had his velocity and almost blew it...

 

Back in 07, Bobby was one of the best closers in baseball. He's taken a real long dive since then.

Edited April 13, 2010 by chw42

[greg775]

Congratulations to Jones, Rios and Teahen.

 

[bmags]

Great game by Teahan and Jones. But my favorite today was Santos. I forgot who he was facing when he gave them three straight sliders that just looked vicious. Couldn't lay off, but couldn't come close to hitting it.

 

I can't quite put my finger on Jones. For about 3 swings in the Ab, he looks awful...actually it seems he doesn't take it seriously until he gets to 2 strikes, and then he puts some good swings on the ball.

 

And, yeah, I think we all see that our situational hitting is a lot better when there are a lot of opportunities. When you only have 2-3 a game and you don't convert, it sure looks worse than when you have 4-5 and convert 1-2 times.

 

As far as Peavy...for 2 starts now his location has been something awful. When he AJ sets him up outside, about 40% of the time I'd say it would be on the other side of the plate. He's also only hitting 89 consistently and had absolutely no offspeed stuff to speak of. I'm shocked he's not injured, but glad. I just hope it's mechanics or something he can fix.

[whitesoxfan101]

Too bad he would never end up with a WHIP around 2. But he may end up with an ERA of 2.25.

 

BTW his WHIP is 1.67 and at its highest in his worst year he was at 1.39. He has had a sub 3 ERA 3 out of his 5 seasons. You continue to worry about things that make no sense, and Bobby will continue to be a very good closer.

 

Bobby is a concern, has been for a while, and will continue to be one, no matter how much some people deny it. Hopefully, his high wire act and continually declining stuff get enough people out to be effective though, because we need him.

 

At any rate, tonight was a great and badly needed win. Getting contributions from Teahen and Jones was great, and the bullpen was awesome. We really need to have a good series up there.

Edited April 13, 2010 by whitesoxfan101