Really, this is all conjecture. We dont know what happens behind the scenes

 

It is Rose's quotes I am basing this on, not Joe Cowley.

Because Bill Russell is a top 10 player (conservatively) of all time, and Motumbo wa a one trick pony who blocked shots.

 

LOL, good luck with this argument.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the team that won the championship last year had one superstar player right?

 

Rose isn't in Dirk's league either. That was also a way better team than the Bulls have.

Because Bill Russell is a top 10 player (conservatively) of all time, and Motumbo wa a one trick pony who blocked shots.

 

Rose isn't in Dirk's league either.

Really?

LOL, good luck with this argument.

 

Which part

A. Russell's greatness

B. Motumbo being overrated

C. Arguing with J4L

Which part

A. Russell's greatness

B. Motumbo being overrated

C. Arguing with J4L

 

Really?

 

Dirk's been at that level for a long period of time, i'll give him that. But Dirk wasn't this good at 22 either.

Edited December 14, 201114 yr by Jenksismybitch

Rose isn't in Dirk's league either. That was also a way better team than the Bulls have.

Drugs + You = Bad

I don't think it's awful that Rose can't recruit, but I do think that is preventing us from getting this CURRENT CROP of superstars. Rose isn't a cohort with the players were speaking of now. At some point we may very well get someone that wants to play with Rose b/c they used to ball together. Maybe Evan Turner becomes amazing...I HOPE. He'd come.

Dirk's been at that level for a long period of time, i'll give him that. But Dirk wasn't this good at 22 either.

Yeah, Rose hasn't been an NBA all star for a decade, I'll grant that also. But that's kinda a hard standard to hold him to.

 

Hell, if we want to go by PER in the Regular season last year...#9 in the NBA was Derrick Rose, #10 was Dirk Nowitzki.

I don't think it's awful that Rose can't recruit, but I do think that is preventing us from getting this CURRENT CROP of superstars. Rose isn't a cohort with the players were speaking of now. At some point we may very well get someone that wants to play with Rose b/c they used to ball together. Maybe Evan Turner becomes amazing...I HOPE. He'd come.

 

Wasn't the rumor last year that Rose, Westbrook and Love all wanted to play together?

Which part

A. Russell's greatness

B. Motumbo being overrated

C. Arguing with J4L

Its useless.

Wasn't the rumor last year that Rose, Westbrook and Love all wanted to play together?

I think they just practice together in the offseason. I think Rose is his own guy and never felt the need to bring in someone else to help him win. Its been him against the world since his birth in englewood.

I think they just practice together in the offseason. I think Rose is his own guy and never felt the need to bring in someone else to help him win. Its been him against the world since his birth in englewood.

 

What about Memphis? Wasn't exactly the place to go if you wanted to be on your own.

Because Bill Russell is a top 10 player (conservatively) of all time, and Motumbo wa a one trick pony who blocked shots.

 

Don't fall for the propaganda. Bill Russell is unequivocally the most overrated figure in NBA history. Right there with the "great" Roger Maris for most overrated, glamorized figure in sports history. He had Joakim Noah's offensive skill-set. His rebounding numbers are totally inflated due to the ridiculous pace teams played back then. He played with 66 Hall of Famers. Dikembe Mutombo saw stiffer competition in a month than Russell saw in 3 years. Centers better than Russell: Wilt, Kareem, Moses, Walton, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson. Centers arguably better than Russell: Mikan, Ewing, Sabonis. Centers comparable with the same skill-set: Mutombo, Mourning, Ben Wallace, Howard. Players overall better than Bill Russell: MJ, Magic, Bird, West, Duncan, Kobe, Erving, Robertson, Dirk, and some others I'm probably forgetting about.

Edited December 14, 201114 yr by Jordan4life

Maybe Rose can get his brother to do the recruiting for him?

What about Memphis? Wasn't exactly the place to go if you wanted to be on your own.

Yes, but thats the type of place to go if you dont want to take the SAT's

The Russell argument is always something that interests me. I tend to agree with J4L that he is overrated, although I think a factor is the way basketball is played now. Don't get me wrong Russell dominated his era, but I feel a player of his ability would have a much easier time doing it back then than in the past 30 or so years.

 

He was extremely agile, could run the floor well, and was a very good shot blocker and rebounder. Consider that the era that he played in was played at a very hectic pace where jump shots weren't all that common and people shot low % shots. Wouldn't that make it easier for someone like Russell to have a massive effect on the game?

 

Rebounds were plentiful and blocks weren't all that hard to come by. Elgin baylor, a small forward, had a season where he averaged 20 rebounds per game.

 

So I think Russell's game translates VERY well to the type of basketball played during that era (hence the 11 rings), but I don't think he's a top player if he plays in a different era. I honestly don't think anybody can really make the argument that he would be nearly as successful in today's era. The guy was not very good at offense. He was a career 44% shooter in an era where he should have dominated on offense (Wilt).

Don't fall for the propaganda. Bill Russell is unequivocally the most overrated figure in NBA history. Right there with the "great" Roger Maris for most overrated, glamorized figure in sports history. He had Joakim Noah's offensive skill-set. His rebounding numbers are totally inflated due to the ridiculous pace teams played back then. He played with 66 Hall of Famers. Dikembe Mutombo saw stiffer competition in a month than Russell saw in 3 years. Centers better than Russell: Wilt, Kareem, Moses, Walton, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson. Centers arguably better than Russell: Mikan, Ewing, Sabonis. Centers comparable with the same skill-set: Mutombo, Mourning, Ben Wallace, Howard. Players overall better than Bill Russell: MJ, Magic, Bird, West, Duncan, Kobe, Erving, Robertson, Dirk, and some others I'm probably forgetting about.

 

I have to agree that Russell is definitely overrated. Maybe not to the level you think, but overrated, specifically due to the championships. He consistenly had multiple HOFers on his teams. Just because he won with those guys doesn't automatically make him a top-5 player as some seem to think.

Don't fall for the propaganda. Bill Russell is unequivocally the most overrated figure in NBA history. Right there with the "great" Roger Maris for most overrated, glamorized figure in sports history. He had Joakim Noah's offensive skill-set. His rebounding numbers are totally inflated due to the ridiculous pace teams played back then. He played with 66 Hall of Famers. Dikembe Mutombo saw stiffer competition in a month than Russell saw in 3 years. Centers better than Russell: Wilt, Kareem, Moses, Walton, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson. Centers arguably better than Russell: Mikan, Ewing, Sabonis. Centers comparable with the same skill-set: Mutombo, Mourning, Ben Wallace, Howard. Players overall better than Bill Russell: MJ, Magic, Bird, West, Duncan, Kobe, Erving, Robertson, Dirk, and some others I'm probably forgetting about.

 

I missed this post, but yeah, I pretty much agree with most of that. Although Russell does deserve some credit for 11 rings.

From 1956-1964, the Celtics had a minimum of 6 HOFers on their team every year, some years 7 or 8.

It's unfair to compare Russell's game to those of players playing today. The fact of the matter is, he rose above the competition. In a world of advanced metrics, I'd think people would be all about this.

 

Bill Russell was one of the best of his era, of this there is zero doubt. He was not privy to sports medicine and science today, and he was only able to play against the competition... which he dominated.

The Russell argument is always something that interests me. I tend to agree with J4L that he is overrated, although I think a factor is the way basketball is played now. Don't get me wrong Russell dominated his era, but I feel a player of his ability would have a much easier time doing it back then than in the past 30 or so years.

 

He was extremely agile, could run the floor well, and was a very good shot blocker and rebounder. Consider that the era that he played in was played at a very hectic pace where jump shots weren't all that common and people shot low % shots. Wouldn't that make it easier for someone like Russell to have a massive effect on the game?

 

Rebounds were plentiful and blocks weren't all that hard to come by. Elgin baylor, a small forward, had a season where he averaged 20 rebounds per game.

 

So I think Russell's game translates VERY well to the type of basketball played during that era (hence the 11 rings), but I don't think he's a top player if he plays in a different era. I honestly don't think anybody can really make the argument that he would be nearly as successful in today's era. The guy was not very good at offense. He was a career 44% shooter in an era where he should have dominated on offense (Wilt).

 

Fine, but I have a real problem with people 50 years later trying to re-write the story in their vision. In 50 years, don't you think people will look back and say "how the hell did Lebron James NOT win the MVP this year?" But to the people who lived and watched, it was impossible for that man to get that award. And for the people who watched, if you ask them, it would be impossible for them to accept our assertion that, no, no, you see Wilt was actually better!

Fine, but I have a real problem with people 50 years later trying to re-write the story in their vision. In 50 years, don't you think people will look back and say "how the hell did Lebron James NOT win the MVP this year?" But to the people who lived and watched, it was impossible for that man to get that award. And for the people who watched, if you ask them, it would be impossible for them to accept our assertion that, no, no, you see Wilt was actually better!

 

Interestingly enough those same people had Wilt make 7 all nba first teams while Russell made 3.