Putz for Closer

[jenksycat]

And if you take out Floyd's 3 worst appearances, I'm sure his ERA drops by 1 (or more). The fact of the matter is, you can't just *remove* those from his current totals.

 

Read the post

 

"Simple reply. Would you describe Bobby Jenks's WHIP and ERA numbers as inflated by "1 bad outing", "2 bad outings", or by "Consistently mediocre at best in April and May along with a terrible outing in July".

 

He asked question. I answered question.

[jenksycat]

Javier Vazquez could take one bad inning out of all of his starts and he'd be a Cy Young contender almost every year. The fact that people would bring up Jenks' bad outings just says that Jenks is wildly inconsistent and can't be relied on at all times.

 

Yep, that's a perfectly valid comparison.

[palehose23]

If we define things this way:

 

1) Great game (A) - no walks, hits or runs

2) Good game (B) - 1-2 walks/hits, no runs.

3) Mediocre game ( C) - not more than 3 walks/hits, not more than 1 run, no BS/loss.

4) Bad game (D) - 3-4 walks/hits and 1-2 runs, or 3 walks/hits + 1 run + BS/loss.

5) Horrible game (F) - 3-4 or more walks/hits, more than 2 runs, or 2 runs with a BS/loss.

 

Bobby has had:

 

A - 11 outings, 7 saves

B - 15 outings, 11 saves

C - 4 outings, 2 saves (no losses, no blown saves)

D - 3 outings, 1 win (no losses, no blown saves)

F - 3 outings, 2 losses, 1 blown save (one of the appearances the white sox won anyway)

 

so he has had 6 bad outings this year in 37 appearances.

 

Those six bad outings:

 

1) April 24th vs Sea - the team wins anyway, 5-4, Jenks gets the Win. Doesn't hurt us.

2) April 29th @ Tex - the team wins anyway, 7-5. Doesn't hurt us.

3) May 7th vs Tor - the team was losing already when he entered the game. Doesn't hurt us.

4) May 9th vs Tor - Bobby blows the game. Hurts us.

5) May 26th @ Cle - the team wins 5-4. Doesn't hurt us.

6) July 18th @ Min - Bobby blows the game. Hurts us.

 

In other words, Bobby Jenks has lost us two games in 37 appearances...31 he has made with the lead.

 

The team is 21-1 since May 11th when he enters the game with the lead.

 

Seems pretty good to me.

 

Including the four "mediocre" appearances:

 

1) Apr 7 vs Cle - entered the game losing.

2) Jun 12 vs Cubs - gave up 1 run, made it closer, got the save anyway.

3) Jul 5 vs LAA - entered the game winning 9-1, gave up one run.

4) Jul 18 @ Min - gave up 1 in that 8-7 win, got the save anyway.

 

I'd call the non-save 2 of those non-factors. The Minny and Cubs games were made sweatacular, but that's what closers do - they still ultimately save the games, and those were rival situations.

 

^^^^^^Thank You

[Greg Hibbard]

Also, is it worth noting to the detractors that even with the blowup, Jenks' ERA since June 1st is 3.00 and his WHIP is 1.00, with nearly a 5.00 K/BB?

Edited July 21, 2010 by Greg Hibbard

[Balta1701]

Also, is it worth noting to the detractors that even with the blowup, Jenks' ERA since June 1st is 3.00 and his WHIP is 1.00, with nearly a 5.00 K/BB?

I thought it was argued that one bad outing would destroy a guy's numbers?

[jenksycat]

Also, is it worth noting to the detractors that even with the blowup, Jenks' ERA since June 1st is 3.00 and his WHIP is 1.00, with nearly a 5.00 K/BB?

 

Nope, all that matters is calling him a fat f*** anytime he goes 2-1 on a batter.

[whitesoxfan101]

Also, is it worth noting to the detractors that even with the blowup, Jenks' ERA since June 1st is 3.00 and his WHIP is 1.00, with nearly a 5.00 K/BB?

 

Okay, so he had a great June. He's not the only guy on our team that did. Doesn't change the fact that it's understandable and logical to be concerned about him, and it doesn't change the fact that saying he has one blown save is mega deceptive.

 

Also, I'm not sure who started the "well if we take out his three crap outings, he'd be great" nonsense, but it is just that. Relief pitchers are men who live in a world of small sample sizes, that's part of why it's so tricky to build a good bullpen. There are a lot of them who would be awesome if you just took out the few games they particularly sucked in.

[Greg Hibbard]

The interesting thing about Jenks is that he almost ALWAYS sucks in July.

 

Jenks had 6 blown saves in 2009, but was particularly bad in July posting an 8.59 ERA and 2.32 WHIP. He only accumulated 2 blown saves, but overall this way by far worse than his performance in any other month.

 

I think in 2008 Jenks was injured in July and only pitched in 5 games.

 

In July of 2007 Jenks posted a 4.61 ERA and blew 3 of his 6 season blown saves that month.

 

In July of 2006 Jenks posted a 7.94 ERA and a robust 2.12 WHIP.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Greg Hibbard

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Javier Vazquez could take one bad inning out of all of his starts and he'd be a Cy Young contender almost every year. The fact that people would bring up Jenks' bad outings just says that Jenks is wildly inconsistent and can't be relied on at all times.

 

See my sig

[witesoxfan]

What are we even arguing about anymore? All I see are numbers being thrown up and that there's a lot of venom being spewed, but I don't even understand the argument anymore.

[chw42]

Yep, that's a perfectly valid comparison.

 

It's just saying that your way of making Jenks look better isn't valid.

[Greg Hibbard]

The argument is whether Jenks looks better in the grey top or the black top. Choose a side or get out of this thread.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Also, is it worth noting to the detractors that even with the blowup, Jenks' ERA since June 1st is 3.00 and his WHIP is 1.00, with nearly a 5.00 K/BB?

 

That's great and all, and your detailed analysis was interesting, but that doesnt change the fact that for the most part this season, he has not looked all that impressive or intimidating. And if you or anyone can say that you are perfectly comfortable with him protecting a 1 run lead down the stretch or in the playoffs, you either are lieing, are unaware of what true shut down closers look like, or don't care. That's not a knock on Jenks, it's just a statement of how he has looked this year.

[chw42]

See my sig

 

That's where I got my inspirations, believe it or not.

[chw42]

Bobby's peripherals look good, his problem is consistency.

[jenksycat]

It's just saying that your way of making Jenks look better isn't valid.

 

No, no its not and it's stupid to even compare those 2. I answered a question asking if a couple outings had inflated his numbers. They did.

[Greg Hibbard]

That's great and all, and your detailed analysis was interesting, but that doesnt change the fact that for the most part this season, he has not looked all that impressive or intimidating. And if you or anyone can say that you are perfectly comfortable with him protecting a 1 run lead down the stretch or in the playoffs, you either are lieing, are unaware of what true shut down closers look like, or don't care. That's not a knock on Jenks, it's just a statement of how he has looked this year.

 

I think people are forgetting that even when he was "overpowering," he still blew the save in game 2 of the world series. It's easy to overlook because of the result.

[Greg Hibbard]

Bobby's peripherals look good, his problem is consistency.

 

 

80% of the time he is a great closer

10% of the time he is a mediocre closer

10% of the time he is the most awful pitcher on the f***ing planet

 

and he has pretty much always been that way, IMO

[chw42]

No, no its not and it's stupid to even compare those 2. I answered a question asking if a couple outings had inflated his numbers. They did.

 

And a couple of innings in a game inflated Vazquez's ERA. Just saying that you can't take out extremes.

[chw42]

80% of the time he is a great closer

10% of the time he is a mediocre closer

10% of the time he is the most awful pitcher on the f***ing planet

 

and he has pretty much always been that way, IMO

 

Jenks was a model of consistency back in 07 and 08 before he got hurt. I'd say he's a great closer maybe 50% of the time and a mediocre one 30% of the time. With the other 20% being bad.

[greg775]

That's not a knock on Jenks, it's just a statement of how he has looked this year.

 

Let's face it, some people are going to hate Jenks no matter what.

Very few of us love him no matter what.

I think he's been a very good baseball player for the White Sox and remains a very good closer.

I think my statement is WAY closer to reality than those who say he sucks and want to have his arm fall off like one guy said after he blew the last save.

 

 

[whitesoxfan101]

Let's face it, some people are going to hate Jenks no matter what.

Very few of us love him no matter what.

I think he's been a very good baseball player for the White Sox and remains a very good closer.

I think my statement is WAY closer to reality than those who say he sucks and want to have his arm fall off like one guy said after he blew the last save.

 

Loving a baseball player no matter what is just as stupid as hating one no matter what (and I'm not sure anybody here hates a player no matter what).

[chw42]

Static opinions of baseball players who are incredibly inconsistent = fail.

[greg775]

Oh I think a lot hate Jenks no matter what.

They simply tolerate him when he gets the save.

So I am the opposite and support him.

[whitesoxfan101]

Oh I think a lot hate Jenks no matter what.

They simply tolerate him when he gets the save.

So I am the opposite and support him.

 

How about this: support him when he's good, criticize him when he's bad. Be confident in him when the numbers say to be, and be concerned about him when the numbers say to be.

Edited July 21, 2010 by whitesoxfan101