Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 11:23 AM) It's the Bulls being really, really good, for the first time in about a dozen years. Well there's that. Though we had a nice little run (relative to how bad we were from '99-'04) from '05-'07 and none of those threads came close to the amount of replies this one has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Just read some stuff about how the Warriors were talking to the Bulls, along with a bunch of other teams, about Monta Ellis. Ellis is a good player, but he's a volume scorer, something the Bulls don't need. The Bulls lacked efficiency last season, they didn't have any great shooters. Deng and Rose hovered around a .550 TS% and they were the only starters you would trust to shoot the ball on a regular basis. Get somebody who can give you well above average efficiency and can shoot more than Keith Bogans and you have yourself a match. Kevin Martin is a better player to look at IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 11:31 AM) Well there's that. Though we had a nice little run (relative to how bad we were from '99-'04) from '05-'07 and none of those threads came close to the amount of replies this one has. Derrick Rose is a lot more fun to post about than Eddy/Tyson/Kirk/Ben. And yeah, this was a total good/evil season... sadly the Bulls didn't pull it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 11:34 AM) Kevin Martin is a better player to look at IMO. My legal department will be contacting you shortly for not citing my trademark on Kevin Martin = perfect Bulls fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I know Kevin McHale is in love with Martin. It'd be very difficult to pry him away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 It is still so odd to me that McHale is coaching. I really thought he was against it and only did it for the Twolves because he was basically forced to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 11:37 AM) My legal department will be contacting you shortly for not citing my trademark on Kevin Martin = perfect Bulls fit. He's far from a perfect fit. He still can't play a lick of defense. You'd have the same problems you had with Korver this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 11:47 AM) He's far from a perfect fit. He still can't play a lick of defense. You'd have the same problems you had with Korver this season. Korver's problems were on the offensive end just as much as the defensive end. Martin can create his own shot, doesn't need the entire team to set up screens for him, and can get to the line 8 times a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 12:03 PM) Korver's problems were on the offensive end just as much as the defensive end. Martin can create his own shot, doesn't need the entire team to set up screens for him, and can get to the line 8 times a game. Korver just blacked out after the Indiana series. He was pretty decent for most of the year. My point was that you'd still be looking at a one way player, something that could be problematic come playoff time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 12:04 PM) My point was that you'd still be looking at a one way player, something that could be problematic come playoff time. Meh. Instant offense is huge. If Korver had hit the shots he put up, we'd have been fine. Kevin Martin is a perfect fit for this roster. Dear Lord, the space he'd clear for D-Rose would be legendary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 01:10 PM) Meh. Instant offense is huge. If Korver had hit the shots he put up, we'd have been fine. Kevin Martin is a perfect fit for this roster. Dear Lord, the space he'd clear for D-Rose would be legendary. Korver is supposed to be that kind of instant offense. He shot 42% from 3 this year, Martin shot 38%. Martin had a TSP of 0.6, Korver 0.57 (although Korver in 2009 was 0.62). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 12:25 PM) Korver is supposed to be that kind of instant offense. He shot 42% from 3 this year, Martin shot 38%. Martin had a TSP of 0.6, Korver 0.57 (although Korver in 2009 was 0.62). The difference between the two is shot volume. Plus, Martin gets to the line like crazy. Korver gets there sparingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 12:25 PM) Korver is supposed to be that kind of instant offense. He shot 42% from 3 this year, Martin shot 38%. Martin had a TSP of 0.6, Korver 0.57 (although Korver in 2009 was 0.62). Martin doesn't require an entire team to set elaborate screens to get open. Martin creates. Martin draws fouls. There's no statistic you can point to to lessen the gap between Korver and Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 01:34 PM) Martin doesn't require an entire team to set elaborate screens to get open. Martin creates. Martin draws fouls. There's no statistic you can point to to lessen the gap between Korver and Martin. But...any time he's doing those things, he's taking the ball out of the hands of a guy who does them better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 12:38 PM) But...any time he's doing those things, he's taking the ball out of the hands of a guy who does them better. How can you argue this? All season we needed a legit 2 guard to take some of the pressure off Rose. This post you have just typed is maddening. What's wrong with having a second guy who can draw fouls and score at will? Anytime Wade has the ball, there's someone on the team who is better. Gosh, the Heat must be f***ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 01:39 PM) How can you argue this? All season we needed a legit 2 guard to take some of the pressure off Rose. This post you have just typed is maddening. What's wrong with having a second guy who can draw fouls and score at will? Anytime Wade has the ball, there's someone on the team who is better. Gosh, the Heat must be f***ed. The thing that's wrong with it is that if the guy defends like a shorter version of Kyle Korver, it might darn well make thing worse. Especially if he demands more minutes. I'm just going back to that Heat series, remembering how Wade went for 10 ppg because of Bogans and Brewer, and thinking that "if the Bulls scored 8 more points a game but Wade scored 15 more points a game"...it wouldn't work out well for the Bulls. That's my catch-22. Of course, I haven't yet thought about "How would we get him without giving up anyone in the top 6 of the rotation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 12:45 PM) The thing that's wrong with it is that if the guy defends like a shorter version of Kyle Korver, it might darn well make thing worse. Kyle Korver NBA.com page - 6'7" Kevin Martin NBA.com page - 6'7" There's just no arguing the ability of Martin to create his own shot and get to the line, and yet another one of your points goes down in flames comparing the height of two players who are the same height. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 12:45 PM) Of course, I haven't yet thought about "How would we get him without giving up anyone in the top 6 of the rotation". I think you talk Joakim Noah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 01:49 PM) I think you talk Joakim Noah. Which tells you all you need to know. Sadly, the Noah post-injury, I might well be willing to talk about, if there was some additional size available somewhere. The pre-injury Noah I'd laugh at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Balta basically wants 2006 Kobe. Not happening. There is no perfect 2-guard out there. IF it were possible to land Kevin Martin, we'd be fools not to seriously explore all options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 02:19 PM) Balta basically wants 2006 Kobe. Not happening. There is no perfect 2-guard out there. IF it were possible to land Kevin Martin, we'd be fools not to seriously explore all options. Yes, I actually do want 2006 Kobe. The real issue is...how the Hell do you beat the Heat unless you can find that? That's the real problem. A guy who could make us better in the regular season might well make us worse against the Heat. That was the catch-22 that was built when the Heat put themselves together. They've got 3 of the best offense/defense players in the league surrounded by guys who can sub in and out for offense and defense. If they add some size this offseason...how do you beat it if you can't match it? We tried to outdefend Dwyane Wade and still lost. Do we think that we can actually outscore Dwyane Wade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 01:22 PM) Yes, I actually do want 2006 Kobe. The real issue is...how the Hell do you beat the Heat unless you can find that? That's the real problem. A guy who could make us better in the regular season might well make us worse against the Heat. That was the catch-22 that was built when the Heat put themselves together. They've got 3 of the best offense/defense players in the league surrounded by guys who can sub in and out for offense and defense. If they add some size this offseason...how do you beat it if you can't match it? We tried to outdefend Dwyane Wade and still lost. Do we think that we can actually outscore Dwyane Wade? The Mavericks don't have that and they're in decent shape to beat the Heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 02:24 PM) The Mavericks don't have that and they're in decent shape to beat the Heat. Relying on a "Lebrondown" to happen against us simply isn't an effective strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 01:22 PM) Yes, I actually do want 2006 Kobe. The real issue is...how the Hell do you beat the Heat unless you can find that? That's the real problem. A guy who could make us better in the regular season might well make us worse against the Heat. That was the catch-22 that was built when the Heat put themselves together. They've got 2 of the best offense/defense players in the league surrounded by guys who can sub in and out for offense and defense. If they add some size this offseason...how do you beat it if you can't match it? We tried to outdefend Dwyane Wade and still lost. Do we think that we can actually outscore Dwyane Wade? Fixed the bolded We were tied in 3/4 losses deep in the 4th quarter. We couldn't close it out, it wasn't like we were blown away by them. That same team with someone who can hit the occasional open shot and Rose/Boozer figuring out how to run a pick and roll wins that series easily. EDIT- AND we got virtually nothing from Noah. He wasn't the same after the injuries, if he manages to heal up and play a healthy playoffs it's and easy win as well. Edited June 9, 2011 by Jenksy Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 The Bulls had their chances, they just didnt capitalize. Miami is not the juggernaut people make them out to be.. If the Bulls do nothing, and just come back with 1 more year of experience they are going to have a chance against Miami as it is currently comprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jun 9, 2011 -> 02:28 PM) That same team with someone who can hit the occasional open shot and Rose/Boozer figuring out how to run a pick and roll wins that series easily. But they have to play Korver's minutes and no more, because otherwise we're sacrificing defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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