Are you really trying to say one is relevant and the other is not? Would love some insight from the arguing side instead of just snide/empty comments and lapses of logic.

 

Again, at the very least, attitudes/personalities matter and each individual person will have a different influence as a coach. This isn't a difficult concept.

 

Obviously it is for some...

I don't disagree. However as long as we've had both coaches I think hitting has been overall a MUCH bigger issue than hitting. Besides, numerous "meh" pitchers have come here only to turn themselves into real names. What hitters have done that? I can't think of a single one off-hand. Quentin is about as close as it gets and for the most part that was simply one year.

That is a huge misconception. Since 2004 Walker's first full year the White Sox offense based on runs scored in the AL ranked

 

3rd-2004

9th-2005

3rd-2006

14th-2007

5th-2008

12th-2009

7th-2010

11th-2011

 

The pitchers ERA were ranked

 

12th-2004

2nd-2005

10th-2006

12th-2007

6th-2008

2nd-2009

8th-2010

6th-2011

 

So in the 8 years 4 times the offense was ranked higher than the pitching and 4 times the pitching was ranked higher than the offense. You could blame USCF, but most Sox pitchers have pitched better at home than on the road, and KW spends more money per pitcher than per position player over the years.

 

That is a huge misconception. Since 2004 Walker's first full year the White Sox offense based on runs scored in the AL ranked

 

3rd-2004

9th-2005

3rd-2006

14th-2007

5th-2008

12th-2009

7th-2010

11th-2011

 

The pitchers ERA were ranked

 

12th-2004

2nd-2005

10th-2006

12th-2007

6th-2008

2nd-2009

8th-2010

6th-2011

 

So in the 8 years 4 times the offense was ranked higher than the pitching and 4 times the pitching was ranked higher than the offense. You could blame USCF, but most Sox pitchers have pitched better at home than on the road, and KW spends more money per pitcher than per position player over the years.

 

I think the argument is what young hitter or unproven hitter has come to the White Sox and flourished under Walker? Most aren't going to give Walker credit for Frank, Maggs, Lee, PK, Thome and Dye. Those guys were established long before they hooked up with Walker. I guess you can say CQ? Though he's been maddeningly inconsistent. Anderson? Fields? Getz? Beckham? Swisher? As where with Coop you can obviously point to Loaiza, Contreras, Thornton, Floyd and for the moment Humber.

I think the argument is what young hitter or unproven hitter has come to the White Sox and flourished under Walker? Most aren't going to give Walker credit for Frank, Maggs, Lee, PK, Thome and Dye. Those guys were established long before they hooked up with Walker. I guess you can say CQ? Though he's been maddeningly inconsistent. Anderson? Fields? Getz? Beckham? Swisher? As where with Coop you can obviously point to Loaiza, Contreras, Thornton, Floyd and for the moment Humber.

Dye had struggled for a couple of years with injuries. Thome had been hurt. Konerko was hitting like Adam Dunn currently is hitting but making more contact. Aaron Rowand swears by Walker. Pods became a better hitter. Crede was alright and was really starting to flourish in 2006 when his back gave out. Look at his numbers at the end of August that year. Alexei Ramirez, Iguchi.

 

Again its a case where the perception is any success pitchers have is because of Cooper. If they fail they just suck. With Walker, if the fail, its because of Greg Walker. If they do well, it has nothing to do with him.

Edited July 10, 201114 yr by Dick Allen

Danny Duffy!

As much as I hate Walker, it's not like he had much to work with in the lineup we had tonight. Three guys out of the nine should be in AAA (Flowers, Lillibridge, Morel). Pierre and Beckham can only do so much offensively as well. I think it's time we just realize this is a pretty average roster we have.

As much as I hate Walker, it's not like he had much to work with in the lineup we had tonight. Three guys out of the nine should be in AAA (Flowers, Lillibridge, Morel). Pierre and Beckham can only do so much offensively as well. I think it's time we just realize this is a pretty average roster we have.

Danny f***ing Duffy!

And Rios stupefied everyone by collecting 2 hits in one game even.

And Rios stupefied everyone by collecting 2 hits in one game even.

 

 

Where is the like button for posts? this one made me laugh.

I just thought of something. We get to see Adam Dunn bat fourth against a lefty on Wednesday. Awesome.

We're going to lose 2 of 3 to KC again ... perfect.

And Rios stupefied everyone by collecting 2 hits in one game even.

 

Are you sure it was Rios or an imposter?

Are you sure it was Rios or an imposter?

 

 

Has anyone seen Rios and Imposter at the same time?

Danny f***ing Duffy!

For once...the rookie we were facing actually had some legit stuff. He was bringing a 95+ mph fastball most of the night and working guys inside.

 

What you could really see also was that guys like Quentin, the Stealth Elf had at bats where they fouled off a bunch of pitches that they were very close on. The guy had just enough late sinking on his fastball that even if they timed things perfectly, they coudln't square up the pitch, so they wound up fouling it off somewhere.

 

This time, give at least some legit credit to the kid.

For once...the rookie we were facing actually had some legit stuff. He was bringing a 95+ mph fastball most of the night and working guys inside.

 

What you could really see also was that guys like Quentin, the Stealth Elf had at bats where they fouled off a bunch of pitches that they were very close on. The guy had just enough late sinking on his fastball that even if they timed things perfectly, they coudln't square up the pitch, so they wound up fouling it off somewhere.

 

This time, give at least some legit credit to the kid.

 

He is supposed to be one of the best of their "legendary" system.

For once...the rookie we were facing actually had some legit stuff. He was bringing a 95+ mph fastball most of the night and working guys inside.

 

What you could really see also was that guys like Quentin, the Stealth Elf had at bats where they fouled off a bunch of pitches that they were very close on. The guy had just enough late sinking on his fastball that even if they timed things perfectly, they coudln't square up the pitch, so they wound up fouling it off somewhere.

 

This time, give at least some legit credit to the kid.

So what you're basically saying is that we should just tip our cap.

So what you're basically saying is that we should just tip our cap.

Do I need to bump the hyperbole thread?

 

Of course not. Just admit that the guy had some decent stuff. This wasn't an 89 mph junkballer.

Do I need to bump the hyperbole thread?

 

Of course not. Just admit that the guy had some decent stuff. This wasn't an 89 mph junkballer.

Huh? How is that hyperbole? You just listed why we should, in fact, tip our cap because he had good stuff. What other definition is there for "tipping your cap" when it doesn't apply to a scenario where the opposing pitcher pitched a great game?

 

I think you're being overly sensitive here.

Edited July 20, 201114 yr by BigSqwert

Huh? How is that hyperbole? You just listed why we should, in fact, tip our cap because he had good stuff. What other definition is there for "tipping your cap" when it doesn't apply to a scenario where the opposing pitcher pitched a great game?

 

I think you;re being overly sensitive here.

Why does acknowledging that you're facing a tough pitcher mean you should tip your cap?

Why does acknowledging that you're facing a tough pitcher mean you should tip your cap?

 

Because that is pretty much the definition of "tip your cap".

Why does acknowledging that you're facing a tough pitcher mean you should tip your cap?

Because that's what tipping your cap means. You couldn't get the job done because the pitcher you faced was very good.

Anybody else ready to tip your cap to Bruce Chen again?

Anybody else ready to tip your cap to Bruce Chen again?

You mean Cy Chen?

Because that's what tipping your cap means. You couldn't get the job done because the pitcher you faced was very good.

I recommend you and Balta have a nice sit-down and hash things out. The "hyperbole" comment was just so out of left-field and inaccurate it's silly. You tip your cap when a pitcher kicks ass like that... that's a common baseball term. You two have been bickering and I would like to see that settled. However, as an outsider, in both areas where this has happened it's been Balta inexplicably picking a fight. Come on, buddy, we all know you're better than that.

 

As for Greg Walker, I have officially given up. Clearly every piece of management with this team is on a raft headed for safety as the ship plunges further into the depths of Lake Michigan. The Tigers, who have at least been in 1st at some point recently, fired their pitching coach (ie held someone accountable), but the Sox just won't f***ing do it. On a team with so many exceptional hitters contributing nothing, the hitting coach should go... that's just f***ing baseball.

 

However, it's not f***ing happening, either.

Walker has been the Sox hitting coach since 2003, and since then, here are the White Sox rankings in runs scored in the AL:

 

2003: 791 runs (8th in the AL)

2004: 865 (3rd in the AL)

2005: 741 (9th in the AL)

2006: 868 (4rd in the AL)

2007: 693 (14th and dead last in the AL)

2008: 811 (5th in the AL)

2009: 724 (12th in the AL)

2010: 752 (7th in the AL)

2011: 389 (10th in the AL, on pace for 650 runs)

 

It started out well, but has been bad from 2007 on (with 2008 a good year).

2003: 791 runs (8th in the AL)

2004: 865 (3rd in the AL)

2005: 741 (9th in the AL)

2006: 868 (4rd in the AL)

2007: 693 (14th and dead last in the AL)

2008: 811 (5th in the AL)

2009: 724 (12th in the AL)

2010: 752 (7th in the AL)

2011: 389 (10th in the AL, on pace for 650 runs)

 

Bad overall, relative to payroll, and this isn't adjusted for how good a hitters park we have even, is it?

Edited July 20, 201114 yr by Stan Bahnsen