May 31, 201114 yr You have to look above the highest problem to assign blame. JR, when will you shake up the organization? Williams = Pulford
May 31, 201114 yr QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ May 30, 2011 -> 06:38 PM) Amen on Kenny. reckless spending on Dunn and Rios. trading away Hudson and Gio. Getting nothing for Swisher or Javier Vazquez. farm system in alarming decline. time for a fresh voice in the management chair. Do it, Chairman. Do it. Which if I recall, everyone was for.
May 31, 201114 yr QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ May 30, 2011 -> 07:38 PM) Amen on Kenny. reckless spending on Dunn and Rios. trading away Hudson and Gio. Getting nothing for Swisher or Javier Vazquez. farm system in alarming decline. time for a fresh voice in the management chair. Do it, Chairman. Do it. He got Tyler Flowers, Brent Lillibridge, and Jon Gilmore. That was not a bad trade at all. Swisher trade(s) though, ouch.
May 31, 201114 yr QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ May 31, 2011 -> 03:31 PM) He got Tyler Flowers, Brent Lillibridge, and Jon Gilmore. That was not a bad trade at all. Swisher trade(s) though, ouch. And Santos Rodriguez
May 31, 201114 yr QUOTE (Quinarvy @ May 31, 2011 -> 03:26 PM) Which if I recall, everyone was for. The Dunn contract was not "reckless." People need to learn the meaning of words like reckless before they start throwing them around.
May 31, 201114 yr QUOTE (iamshack @ May 31, 2011 -> 02:48 PM) The Dunn contract was not "reckless." People need to learn the meaning of words like reckless before they start throwing them around. I thought reckless meant "below market value"?
May 31, 201114 yr QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 31, 2011 -> 02:48 PM) I thought reckless meant "below market value"? I can see someone characterizing the Rios waiver claim and even the Peavy trades as reckless. I tend to think of them as calculated risks that have yet to pan out, but that is just me. For Rios in particular, I guess I just get peace of mind from having a solid defensive CF out there, especially with Q manning RF much of the time. Do we not all remember what a disaster CF has been for this franchise for much of the recent past? I firmly believe he will earn his paycheck for a few years of this contract. He will probably underperform a few years as well, but I don't believe his signing will end up being a complete bust.
May 31, 201114 yr QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 31, 2011 -> 03:48 PM) I thought reckless meant "below market value"? 17 million contract dollar contract current value 500,000 dollar est.
May 31, 201114 yr QUOTE (forrestg @ May 31, 2011 -> 04:10 PM) 17 million contract dollar contract current value 500,000 dollar est. So you believe Dunn will hit .190 for the remainder of the contract?
May 31, 201114 yr QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ May 31, 2011 -> 04:20 PM) So you believe Dunn will hit .190 for the remainder of the contract? I would hope not but we're not seeing a 17 million dollar product presently.
May 31, 201114 yr QUOTE (forrestg @ May 31, 2011 -> 05:42 PM) I would hope not but we're not seeing a 17 million dollar product presently. So far Dunn has been worth -$2M. He has a long way to go to earn his $12M contract this year.
May 31, 201114 yr QUOTE (iamshack @ May 31, 2011 -> 08:55 PM) I can see someone characterizing the Rios waiver claim and even the Peavy trades as reckless. I tend to think of them as calculated risks that have yet to pan out, but that is just me. For Rios in particular, I guess I just get peace of mind from having a solid defensive CF out there, especially with Q manning RF much of the time. Do we not all remember what a disaster CF has been for this franchise for much of the recent past? I firmly believe he will earn his paycheck for a few years of this contract. He will probably underperform a few years as well, but I don't believe his signing will end up being a complete bust. I think he's totally a bust. We've won nothing with him and he can't hit the ball. Anderson could field if we wanted a .200 hitter who can field out there at $1 mill a year.
May 31, 201114 yr QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ May 31, 2011 -> 03:20 PM) So you believe Dunn will hit .190 for the remainder of the contract? No.
May 31, 201114 yr QUOTE (greg775 @ May 31, 2011 -> 05:05 PM) I think he's totally a bust. We've won nothing with him and he can't hit the ball. Anderson could field if we wanted a .200 hitter who can field out there at $1 mill a year. His 2010 season (his first full season) was the best season from a Sox CF in a long time. How you can say "we've won nothing with him" is a bit ridiculous. Is he overpaid? Of course, but give me Rios over the slew of crap we've trotted out there the last 5 years any day. QUOTE (forrestg @ May 31, 2011 -> 05:05 PM) I would hope not but we're not seeing a 17 million dollar product presently. My point was, you can't claim that the Dunn signing is a bust because his contract is "technically" worth -3.95 million right now without also believing he will do that for the next 3.5 years as well. If you think its a bust, then you must also think he will hit like this for the next 4 years.
May 31, 201114 yr QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ May 31, 2011 -> 05:29 PM) His 2010 season (his first full season) was the best season from a Sox CF in a long time. How you can say "we've won nothing with him" is a bit ridiculous. Is he overpaid? Of course, but give me Rios over the slew of crap we've trotted out there the last 5 years any day. We put out anything to avoid acquiring a real centerfielder. Then we acquired Rios , he can field but presently his woodworking is not even mediocre. My point was, you can't claim that the Dunn signing is a bust because his contract is "technically" worth -3.95 million right now without also believing he will do that for the next 3.5 years as well. If you think its a bust, then you must also think he will hit like this for the next 4 years. When I first saw that we go Dunn I thought the nl to al would not be an easy one. I only had a feeling that .259 30hr 100 rbis would not be as easy. Can he get better? He has far to go. Teahen who everone says can't field his position might be better at the dh spot.
June 1, 201114 yr QUOTE (iamshack @ May 31, 2011 -> 03:48 PM) The Dunn contract was not "reckless." People need to learn the meaning of words like reckless before they start throwing them around. I see what you did there. QUOTE (greg775 @ May 31, 2011 -> 05:05 PM) I think he's totally a bust. We've won nothing with him and he can't hit the ball. Anderson could field if we wanted a .200 hitter who can field out there at $1 mill a year. And...? The Tigers haven't won anything with Cabrera and he's been with them longer than Rios with us. The "hasn't won anything" argument in baseball is bulls***. I mean, Danks hasn't won anything with us. Or Floyd. Or Humber. Or Quentin. Or Alexei. Or Beckham. Or Santos. Or Thornton. Or EVERYONE NOT Buehrle, Paulie, Pierzynski. 22 guys are busts. Edited June 1, 201114 yr by Quinarvy
June 1, 201114 yr QUOTE (forrestg @ May 31, 2011 -> 04:10 PM) 17 million contract dollar contract current value 500,000 dollar est. It doesn't matter what the "current value" is to determine if a contract was reckless when they signed it.
June 1, 201114 yr QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ May 31, 2011 -> 03:31 PM) He got Tyler Flowers, Brent Lillibridge, and Jon Gilmore. That was not a bad trade at all. Swisher trade(s) though, ouch. me as far as the Swisher deal. In New York he has been an asset. Shouldn't some of the blame for this be Ozzie for not using dirty 30 in roles that were not suitable to his talents. Centerfield, lead off. Ozzie may have had little choice to play him where he was without a true lead off hitter and his thoughts at the time was good obp would suffice and center field he was our best choice at the time.
June 2, 201114 yr QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 2, 2011 -> 12:55 PM) Dallas cleared waivers and is now back in Charlotte. What a relief. Edited June 2, 201114 yr by Stan Bahnsen
June 2, 201114 yr QUOTE (kapzk @ Jun 2, 2011 -> 04:01 PM) can someone provide the details of Rios' contract. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=1564755
June 2, 201114 yr QUOTE (kapzk @ Jun 2, 2011 -> 04:01 PM) can someone provide the details of Rios' contract. 2005 24 Toronto Blue Jays $331,000 2006 25 Toronto Blue Jays $354,000 2007 26 Toronto Blue Jays $2,535,000 2008 27 Toronto Blue Jays $4,835,000 2009 28 Toronto Blue Jays $6,400,000 2010 29 Chicago White Sox $10,200,000 2011 30 Chicago White Sox $12,000,000 Trade escalates salary by $500k 2012 31 Chicago White Sox $12,000,000 Trade escalates salary by $500k 2013 32 Chicago White Sox $12,500,000 Trade escalates salary by $500k 2014 33 Chicago White Sox $12,500,000 Trade escalates 2015 option by $500k 2015 34 Chicago White Sox *$13,500,000 $13.5M Team Option, $1M Buyout Baseball-reference.com is an excellent resource for anyone's contract.
June 3, 201114 yr QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ May 31, 2011 -> 04:20 PM) So you believe Dunn will hit .190 for the remainder of the contract? No.......... .175
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