So thats a no, they were not enough to make up 9.5 games.

 

Clearly we'll never know because Ozzie was unwilling to try a different approach, period.

 

He's more stubborn than almost any manager in baseball that can be named.

No, Moneyball was about Michael Lewis giving Billy Beane and the Oakland front office a complete hand job. Sabermetrics existed long before Billy Beane and heavy steroid use.

 

Research about Markov models of baseball lineups existed in the late 80s and there were numerous books written on similar research. People just think Moneyball made sabermetrics because it was the first time they heard about it.

 

Who would go to a movie starring Paul Giamatti or Dan Fogler as Bill James?

Edited September 11, 201114 yr by caulfield12

Who would go to a movie starring Paul Giamatti or Dan Fogler as Bill James?

 

TBH with you, I'm interested in seeing the movie. I won't pay to go, but I'll download it when I'm bored.

 

I wonder who will play the role of Kenny Williams.

No, Moneyball was about Michael Lewis giving Billy Beane and the Oakland front office a complete hand job. Sabermetrics existed long before Billy Beane and heavy steroid use.

 

Research about Markov models of baseball lineups existed in the late 80s and there were numerous books written on similar research. People just think Moneyball made sabermetrics because it was the first time they heard about it.

 

f*** Michael Lewis and Billy Beane.

 

Carry on.

Oh GMAB. CQ >>> Pierre.

 

What are you talking about? I never said anything about anybody being better than anybody else. Quentin's OBP is .003 points higher than Pierre's right now. There is no way anybody can say with absolute certainty that Quentin's would be higher if he had not gotten injured.

The entire idea of qualifying is flawed when you're comparing OBP. Because "qualifying" means 3.1 ABs per game. On Base Percentage does not only depend on At Bats, it also depends on walks, hit by pitches, sacrifice hits, and sacrifice flies. Quentin has 3.3 PAs per game the White Sox have played, so technically, if the idea of qualification is 3.1 PAs per game, then he would easily qualify. And technically it should be that way.

 

Hey man those are MLB's established rules, not mine. If you put together a petition to change the way players qualify for OBP leader I will sign it.

Moneyball has zero or nothing to do with OBP.

 

Those teams won because of Hudson/Mulder/Zito and then enough offense steroids with guys like Giambi, Chavez and Tejada sprinkled in there.

 

They filled out their last 25% of the roster with those Dan Johnson/Hatteberg/Swisher types (high OBP at 1B/LF/RF/DH)....but the whole idea of it as being an area where they exploited this concept to build some kind of replicable dynasty is a complete joke.

 

Moneyball should have been about the Twins....but Ryan over there was never interesting or compelling or egomaniacal enough to write about.

 

I looked at Pierre's gamelog for May, and it did seem like there were missed running opportunities there, so some of the people on the other side of this debate seem to have a point.

 

I didn't realize that he's .342 with runners in scoring position this season, and I wonder where his RBI total ranks for leadoff hitters.

 

He does finally have a positive WAR, for what its worth. I know people will say he righted the ship at a time that it didn't mean anything, but seems like 90% of mlb players' careers are built on statistics accrued when those players aren't playing for anything, since baseball has such an unforgiving playoff structure.

Edited September 12, 201114 yr by Greg Hibbard

I looked at Pierre's gamelog for May, and it did seem like there were missed running opportunities there, so some of the people on the other side of this debate seem to have a point.

 

I didn't realize that he's .342 with runners in scoring position this season, and I wonder where his RBI total ranks for leadoff hitters.

 

He does finally have a positive WAR, for what its worth. I know people will say he righted the ship at a time that it didn't mean anything, but seems like 90% of mlb players' careers are built on statistics accrued when those players aren't playing for anything, since baseball has such an unforgiving playoff structure.

 

Another great post by Hibbard. I absolutely love those last 2 paragraphs!

 

"But he had a bad April." .... Wah wah.

Once again it was that awful April that basically killed our chances this year

Once again it was that awful April that basically killed our chances this year

 

You can't teach logic to a brick wall.

I looked at Pierre's gamelog for May, and it did seem like there were missed running opportunities there, so some of the people on the other side of this debate seem to have a point.

 

I didn't realize that he's .342 with runners in scoring position this season, and I wonder where his RBI total ranks for leadoff hitters.

 

He does finally have a positive WAR, for what its worth. I know people will say he righted the ship at a time that it didn't mean anything, but seems like 90% of mlb players' careers are built on statistics accrued when those players aren't playing for anything, since baseball has such an unforgiving playoff structure.

 

He was a key reason why we started out so poorly. You even created an entire thread on how insurmountable our awful start was so I'm not sure it matters that he played better after he helped this team get into a hole which couldn't be overcome.

 

If you recall, many of us were posting the stats in early May that demonstrated how he was literally the worst baseball player in MLB at that time.

Edited September 12, 201114 yr by BigSqwert

He was a key reason we started out so poorly. You even created an entire thread on how insurmountable our awful start was so I'm not sure it matters that he played better after he helped this team get into a hole which couldn't be overcome.

 

Like.

Once again it was that awful April that basically killed our chances this year

 

But you can't deny Hibbard's last paragraph. He makes a key point about baseball stats and sabes.

Blaming Pierre is ridiculous when Matt sucked as well and others sucked. Dunn didn't help us win a game for the first 2 months.

But you can't deny Hibbard's last paragraph. He makes a key point about baseball stats and sabes.

Blaming Pierre is ridiculous when Matt sucked as well and others sucked. Dunn didn't help us win a game for the first 2 months.

If Pierre had caught a couple fly balls, Matty would have looked a lot better, FWIW.

He was a key reason why we started out so poorly. You even created an entire thread on how insurmountable our awful start was so I'm not sure it matters that he played better after he helped this team get into a hole which couldn't be overcome.

 

If you recall, many of us were posting the stats in early May that demonstrated how he was literally the worst baseball player in MLB at that time.

 

Yes he stunk and the Sox as a whole stunk.

It doesn't diminish what Hibbard said. Please respond to that post.

I was never a fan of Pierre, but .342 with runners in scoring position is a hell of a year for anyone. Luckily he wasn't dropped.

Yes he stunk and the Sox as a whole stunk.

It doesn't diminish what Hibbard said. Please respond to that post.

 

1) Hibbard conducted a ridiculous amount of research to prove that an 11-22 start is an insurmountable record for turning things around and making the post season.

2) Juan Pierre for the first 6 weeks of the season was literally the worst every day player in all of baseball when taking account various stats. This obviously contributed heavily towards that 11-22 start.

3) Since in #1 above we already established that 11-22 was insurmountable, who cares what he did later in the season? It didn't matter anymore. The damage was done. We continued to trot out the worst player in MLB, digging ourselves in a deeper hole. There's nothing left to prove except that when it no longer mattered, he started putting up better numbers.

Forget all of you haters. Think of how much Juan Pierre helped our draft position this year. Yeah would could have had a pick in the high 20's, but now we are into the teens for sure!

1) Hibbard conducted a ridiculous amount of research to prove that an 11-22 start is an insurmountable record for turning things around and making the post season.

2) Juan Pierre for the first 6 weeks of the season was literally the worst every day player in all of baseball when taking account various stats. This obviously contributed heavily towards that 11-22 start.

3) Since in #1 above we already established that 11-22 was insurmountable, who cares what he did later in the season? It didn't matter anymore. The damage was done. We continued to trot out the worst player in MLB, digging ourselves in a deeper hole. There's nothing left to prove except that when it no longer mattered, he started putting up better numbers.

 

People turn arguments around to suit their feelings.

So Pierre had a bad month and that's that to many.

Look what he's hit with runners in scoring position. Think of how many games he helped the team win compared to the other bums in the lineup.

But I'll say it again ... but he was soooo bad in April. Wah.

 

 

I agree! He sucked in April. But look at his seasonal body of work. How come that matters regarding some players and not others who are hated like Juan???

1) Hibbard conducted a ridiculous amount of research to prove that an 11-22 start is an insurmountable record for turning things around and making the post season.

2) Juan Pierre for the first 6 weeks of the season was literally the worst every day player in all of baseball when taking account various stats. This obviously contributed heavily towards that 11-22 start.

3) Since in #1 above we already established that 11-22 was insurmountable, who cares what he did later in the season? It didn't matter anymore. The damage was done. We continued to trot out the worst player in MLB, digging ourselves in a deeper hole. There's nothing left to prove except that when it no longer mattered, he started putting up better numbers.

 

What about his .342 with runers in scoring position? Look at Thornton's April . . .

 

Look at Thornton's April . . .

 

Maybe you should go back and actually watch some video footage of those games in April. Pierre directly affected Thorton's April by dropping several easy catches that wound up being blown saves.

Maybe you should go back and actually watch some video footage of those games in April. Pierre directly affected Thorton's April by dropping several easy catches that wound up being blown saves.

 

15 hits, 6 walks in 8.1 April innings for Thornton Sqwert.

 

15 hits, 6 walks in 8.1 April innings for Thornton Sqwert.

Maybe he's the kind of guy that doesn't recover well from poor defense behind him. Who knows how many of those walks and hits could have been avoided had Pierre played at least average defense in those games.

15 hits, 6 walks in 8.1 April innings for Thornton Sqwert.

 

He was awful. The team was awful.

Let's face it. I love what Juan Pierre made out of his season; a couple agree with me; many disagree.

I do think he catches way too much blame on a team where he's been the third best hitter.