Well....

 

1 year late is better than never I guess. Hope Kenny thought burning a year of his starter shelf life was worth it.

 

He produced 1.4 WAR out of the bullpen. With the staff the way it was this year, being a starter just didn't fit. Getting him some valuable experience as a reliever in high leverage situations isn't a bad thing, in fact Sale had the 7th best WPA of all relievers in MLB.

 

It's just part of his learning experience. TBH, I'm still worried about him as a starter. He just looks like a guy who will lose a lot of his stuff due to the transition and break down later on in the year.

He produced 1.4 WAR out of the bullpen. With the staff the way it was this year, being a starter just didn't fit. Getting him some valuable experience as a reliever in high leverage situations isn't a bad thing, in fact Sale had the 7th best WPA of all relievers in MLB.

 

It's just part of his learning experience. TBH, I'm still worried about him as a starter. He just looks like a guy who will lose a lot of his stuff due to the transition and break down later on in the year.

Then you know what would have been great? Stretching him out to 165 innings this year. Best thing you could have done if you were really worried about him breaking down at the end of the year.

If I'm a national league team, I'd be drooling over Danks and Floyd. If the deal is sweet enough, I'm sure you could get rid of Rios, Dunn or Peavy with Quentin, Danks or Floyd.

So what percentage are we looking at for Sale's fastball while starting sits in the low-90's instead of upper 90's? 98%? 100?

Then you know what would have been great? Stretching him out to 165 innings this year. Best thing you could have done if you were really worried about him breaking down at the end of the year.

 

Then we wouldn't know much about Phil Humber...

 

Like I said, he wasn't fit to be a starter on this year's team. Any other year and I'd agree with you.

 

So what percentage are we looking at for Sale's fastball while starting sits in the low-90's instead of upper 90's? 98%? 100?

 

You're probably looking at a 3-4 MPH drop. Sale threw 95.3 this year, so probably 91-92. I can live with that. He's also going to have to abandon the slider a bit and use his change-up more. The good thing is that he's above average on both of those pitches.

 

With appropriate pitch selection, Sale should be a fairly reliable starter. We're talking about a lefty with two plus off speed pitches and an above average fastball.

Then we wouldn't know much about Phil Humber...

 

Like I said, he wasn't fit to be a starter on this year's team. Any other year and I'd agree with you.

 

Not to mention the time for stretching people out is during rebuilding seasons.

So what percentage are we looking at for Sale's fastball while starting sits in the low-90's instead of upper 90's? 98%? 100?

Id love to see him average 94-95

Wait a minute? Sale's FB is going to drop 4 MPH as a starter? I smell another failed White Sox 1st round pick if that happens.

Wait a minute? Sale's FB is going to drop 4 MPH as a starter? I smell another failed White Sox 1st round pick if that happens.

 

I don't know about 4 MPH, but a drop in velocity is very likely. Happens almost all the time when a pitcher has to sustain himself for a starter's workload. Conversely, many starters gain velocity when converted to relieving. Addison Reed for instance.

Wait a minute? Sale's FB is going to drop 4 MPH as a starter? I smell another failed White Sox 1st round pick if that happens.

He averaged 94.9 this year and 95.9 in his cup of coffee last year (when he had already thrown 120 college innings to stretch out)

Id love to see him average 94-95

 

That's what he averaged this year as a reliever. It'd be physically dangerous to have him throw that fast as a starter.

 

Wilson lost 3 MPH on his fastball after converting to a starter last season. Sale may be different, I don't know. But a lot of relievers lose at least 2-3 MPH after converting.

 

Ogando only lost 1 MPH on the fastball this season though.

 

And if I remember correctly, Sale had incredibly low velocity to start the year (93-94).

Edited October 4, 201114 yr by chw42

That's what he averaged this year as a reliever. It'd be physically dangerous to have him throw that fast as a starter.

 

Wilson lost 3 MPH on his fastball after converting to a starter last season. Sale may be different, I don't know. But a lot of relievers lose at least 2-3 MPH after converting.

 

Ogando only lost 1 MPH on the fastball this season though.

Take a look at his velocity chart...his velocity was low the first month or so when he stank. He probably was needing to stretch his arm out since he was used to starting. I think he probably averaged close to 96 after may. Enough innings to stretch out in the spring and he might have popped that the whole year.

That's what he averaged this year as a reliever. It'd be physically dangerous to have him throw that fast as a starter.

 

Wilson lost 3 MPH on his fastball after converting to a starter last season. Sale may be different, I don't know. But a lot of relievers lose at least 2-3 MPH after converting.

 

Ogando only lost 1 MPH on the fastball this season though.

 

And if I remember correctly, Sale had incredibly low velocity to start the year (93-94).

 

In other words, we took a future reliever with the hopes of him maybe becoming a starter. The pre-draft scouting reports were pretty consistent.

Edited October 4, 201114 yr by Jordan4life

In other words, we took a future reliever with the hopes of him maybe becoming a starter. The pre-draft scouting reports were pretty consistent.

 

Perhaps. He will be a lot more dominant as a reliever than a starter, we already know that much.

•GM Kenny Williams told Peter Gammons of MLB Network that the White Sox are "going to let the kids play" next season. Gammons expects the White Sox to be younger in 2012.

 

Sale to rotation no brainer........................Kids can play II.............................JR can just rehash old promo's and save advertising budget!

Edited October 4, 201114 yr by Soxfest

Perhaps. He will be a lot more dominant as a reliever than a starter, we already know that much.

 

I would agree. A few days ago Goldstein tabbed him as a likely three with an outside shot of becoming a two.

•GM Kenny Williams told Peter Gammons of MLB Network that the White Sox are "going to let the kids play" next season. Gammons expects the White Sox to be younger in 2012.

 

Sale to rotation no brainer........................Kids can play II.............................JR can just rehash old promo's and save advertising budget!

 

As long as they don't trade everyone (like Alexei or Santos), I think I'll be okay with it.

 

If Dunn, Peavy, and Rios play anywhere near the money they're paid next year, the team could be pretty competitive.

I would agree. A few days ago Goldstein tabbed him as a likely three with an outside shot of becoming a two.

 

If that's really the case, you're looking at a 3-4 WAR starter instead of a 1.5-2 WAR reliever.

 

The last 5 or so statements make no sense. The reason people thought he was a reliever was Health, not stuff. And I he's a starter, he'll be a very good one if e stays healthy. As soon as his arm loosened up and he could throw strikes, hitters had no shot. That part shouldn't change. OTS health that is the worry.

The last 5 or so statements make no sense. The reason people thought he was a reliever was Health, not stuff. And I he's a starter, he'll be a very good one if e stays healthy. As soon as his arm loosened up and he could throw strikes, hitters had no shot. That part shouldn't change. OTS health that is the worry.

 

Mechanics, frame, etc. There was risk. Even if he has the stuff. The warning signs were there. I'm not going to make a stink about this now. But there's no letting the Sox off the hook if he ends up back in the bullpen.

Mechanics, frame, etc. There was risk. Even if he has the stuff. The warning signs were there. I'm not going to make a stink about this now. But there's no letting the Sox off the hook if he ends up back in the bullpen.

All of those things you listed are reasons to worry about injury, not performance.

 

That's why the bullpen for him this year was so risky. It's screwig with what his arm was adapting to.

Mechanics, frame, etc. There was risk. Even if he has the stuff. The warning signs were there. I'm not going to make a stink about this now. But there's no letting the Sox off the hook if he ends up back in the bullpen.

 

Many also had concerns about him reliably retiring right handed hitters due to his arm slot.

Many also had concerns about him reliably retiring right handed hitters due to his arm slot.

Then we saw his offspeed stuff.

Mechanics, frame, etc. There was risk. Even if he has the stuff. The warning signs were there. I'm not going to make a stink about this now. But there's no letting the Sox off the hook if he ends up back in the bullpen.

 

He was a no-brainer pick where they selected him. Who should they have taken?