If Kenny does really gut this team (which I very much doubt) than I'm at peace with letting Mark walk as part of that plan.

 

I will miss him very much as a fan and it will result in lower attendance. It is not just a sentimental thing to bring him back. The reason half of baseball is after him is because he would better any rotation in baseball.

 

And, what the Sox would have to pay him would probably worth it for 2 reasons. Firstly, the team will be that much better and perhaps keep the team from being eliminated by June and the rest of the team giving up. Also, reasons for fans to come and see a half way decent product. Lastly, in 2014 Buehrle should be close to 200 wins in a Sox uniform - another reason for interest, excitement, ticket sales etc.

 

If KW half asses the rebuild and tries the "we are planning to contend in 2013" without Mark it would be a stupid plan. Of course, it is already anyway for the Sox.

Why do so many want the Sox to hit rock bottom? Why can't they sign Buehrle and rebuild. JR isn't going broke, the payroll apparently won't be an issue for a few years. Maybe the Cardinals in 6 months to a year need a starter. The Sox could deal him and gain what so many here like better than actual major league players...................prospects.

 

Chances of most of the prospects the Sox will be trading for and the players the Sox draft the next few years panning out like the last real rebuild, McDowell, Thomas, Ventura, Fernandez are very slim. They have to try to do both, win and build.

Why do so many want the Sox to hit rock bottom? Why can't they sign Buehrle and rebuild. JR isn't going broke, the payroll apparently won't be an issue for a few years. Maybe the Cardinals in 6 months to a year need a starter. The Sox could deal him and gain what so many here like better than actual major league players...................prospects.

 

Chances of most of the prospects the Sox will be trading for and the players the Sox draft the next few years panning out like the last real rebuild, McDowell, Thomas, Ventura, Fernandez are very slim. They have to try to do both, win and build.

 

Outside of a 30 game stretch in 2010, one could argue the last three years have been rock-bottom. And the chances of Mark being traded IF he resigns with the Sox are zero.

Outside of a 30 game stretch in 2010, one could argue the last three years have been rock-bottom. And the chances of Mark being traded IF he resigns with the Sox are zero.

And whats the difference if he stays a White Sox or goes somewhere else? Its not like they are getting the top pick next June letting him go. One thing I've noticed about guys who can't get traded because of no trade protection and are on teams that aren't good.............they seemed to get traded. Either Buerhle helps the Sox win some games the next few years or the team really sucks and they find another place for him to go. Its not like they are gaining anything but increasing JR's bank account by letting him go.

And whats the difference if he stays a White Sox or goes somewhere else? Its not like they are getting the top pick next June letting him go. One thing I've noticed about guys who can't get traded because of no trade protection and are on teams that aren't good.............they seemed to get traded. Either Buerhle helps the Sox win some games the next few years or the team really sucks and they find another place for him to go. Its not like they are gaining anything but increasing JR's bank account by letting him go.

 

And if we keep him to help draw fans, they aren't gaining anything but increasing JR's bank account. If they let him walk, there's a better chance at higher draft picks next year and extra money for scouting, etc.

First off, everyone here saying they'd go to more games if we rebuild is either full of s*** or goes to so few games it doesn't even matter. Almost every single fan, casual or hardcore, will go to less games and that's completely normal during a rebuilding process. But please don't act like you're going to support a 90-100 loss team the same financially as you would a .500 team just because you think the front office is making the right decision to rebuild. Just watch how many season ticket holders we'll lose if we do.

 

Speaking of which, trying to maintain (and normally trying to grow) your season ticket base is of the utmost importance for every MLB franchise. Having a certain amount of fixed revenue is critical to have a well-run organization and the season ticket holders provide a significant chunk of that. Therefore, keeping them happy is extremely important, because once you lose them it's hard to get them back. If that means keeping a fan favorite and pretending to be more competitive then we're really going to be then so be it. As long as that player is not blocking a prospect (which he wouldn't be, since we have few SP prospects) and the resources used to him retain don't need to be allocated to some obvious area (which should have been the draft if not for the new CBA) what do we have to lose? Cutting payroll is going to happen if we rebuild, but people forget that there is a certain payroll level that is sustainable no matter how competitive we are. If you can fit Buehrle into that payroll figure, then why the hell not? He'll reduce some stress on our young relievers by eating innings, he can be a great mentor to the young starting pitchers, and he'll keep a lot of season ticket holders happy. So once again, for all the people that think resigning Buerhle would be stupid if we rebuild, what would you rather do with that $13 million a year? Because right now all I'm seeing people suggesting cut excess payroll to simply line Reinsdorf's pockets.

But, this only makes sense if BOTH Floyd and Danks go for prospect packages AND Buerhle is willing to come back on some sort of a hometown discount because we give him a NTC and essentially the opportunity to retire in Chicago. And, to be clear, the rebuild has to be the top priority. And there still has to be a net salary drop team-wide.

Outside of all the fluff in your post here is a point that actually has some truth in it, in fact I mentioned it before this offseason even started. KW wants to rebuild on the fly, because here you cannot go to 60 wins and continue to make money on the team. Players they are going to unload are: Thornton, Quentin, Danks, Floyd, plus the salaries of Pierre, Castro, and Omar. You then bring back Buehrle, some guys in the pen and bank on Sale and Stewart to replicate the contribution of Floyd and Danks. Your overall payroll goes down, you back fill your positions with the prospects you already have and you hope you can pick up some good young players for the guys you dealt.

 

Thats the plan, we'll see how it shakes out.

Why do so many want the Sox to hit rock bottom? Why can't they sign Buehrle and rebuild. JR isn't going broke, the payroll apparently won't be an issue for a few years. Maybe the Cardinals in 6 months to a year need a starter. The Sox could deal him and gain what so many here like better than actual major league players...................prospects.

 

Chances of most of the prospects the Sox will be trading for and the players the Sox draft the next few years panning out like the last real rebuild, McDowell, Thomas, Ventura, Fernandez are very slim. They have to try to do both, win and build.

 

 

OOTP is not real life

First off, everyone here saying they'd go to more games if we rebuild is either full of s*** or goes to so few games it doesn't even matter. Almost every single fan, casual or hardcore, will go to less games and that's completely normal during a rebuilding process. But please don't act like you're going to support a 90-100 loss team the same financially as you would a .500 team just because you think the front office is making the right decision to rebuild. Just watch how many season ticket holders we'll lose if we do.

 

Speaking of which, trying to maintain (and normally trying to grow) your season ticket base is of the utmost importance for every MLB franchise. Having a certain amount of fixed revenue is critical to have a well-run organization and the season ticket holders provide a significant chunk of that. Therefore, keeping them happy is extremely important, because once you lose them it's hard to get them back. If that means keeping a fan favorite and pretending to be more competitive then we're really going to be then so be it. As long as that player is not blocking a prospect (which he wouldn't be, since we have few SP prospects) and the resources used to him retain don't need to be allocated to some obvious area (which should have been the draft if not for the new CBA) what do we have to lose? Cutting payroll is going to happen if we rebuild, but people forget that there is a certain payroll level that is sustainable no matter how competitive we are. If you can fit Buehrle into that payroll figure, then why the hell not? He'll reduce some stress on our young relievers by eating innings, he can be a great mentor to the young starting pitchers, and he'll keep a lot of season ticket holders happy. So once again, for all the people that think resigning Buerhle would be stupid if we rebuild, what would you rather do with that $13 million a year? Because right now all I'm seeing people suggesting cut excess payroll to simply line Reinsdorf's pockets.

 

I paid for a grand total of 0 tickets last season. If they do a true rebuild, I'll be back to my usual 15-20 whether or not you believe it.

Outside of a 30 game stretch in 2010, one could argue the last three years have been rock-bottom. And the chances of Mark being traded IF he resigns with the Sox are zero.

 

You call that rock-bottom? I'd hate to see what adjectives you use to describe what's been going on in KC & Pittsburgh the last 25 years, or the last 10 in Baltimore.

I paid for a grand total of 0 tickets last season. If they do a true rebuild, I'll be back to my usual 15-20 whether or not you believe it.

 

That's good for you, but the average fan doesn't think that way. If the Sox are losing, their overall attendance will drop guaranteed.

I paid for a grand total of 0 tickets last season. If they do a true rebuild, I'll be back to my usual 15-20 whether or not you believe it.

 

So they have nothing to lose with you.

That's good for you, but the average fan doesn't think that way. If the Sox are losing, their overall attendance will drop guaranteed.

They've already seen a drop from last season and thats before trading players and having a 60-70 win rebuild season. The stadium would be empty.

That's good for you, but the average fan doesn't think that way. If the Sox are losing, their overall attendance will drop guaranteed.

 

Thanks. For a second, I thought I was speaking for the entire fan base.

 

I was responding to his statement that anyone who says they'll support the team if they suck is full of s***.

You call that rock-bottom? I'd hate to see what adjectives you use to describe what's been going on in KC & Pittsburgh the last 25 years, or the last 10 in Baltimore.

Funny, each of those franchises have been lauded the past few years for all of their prospects. I don't know what people are smoking when they think the Sox can dump all their good players, pick up other teams' prospects draft some studs and be fine in 3 years. There is nothing to suggest the White Sox even know how to develop players and have been average at best identifying young talent the last decade.

Funny, each of those franchises have been lauded the past few years for all of their prospects. I don't know what people are smoking when they think the Sox can dump all their good players, pick up other teams' prospects draft some studs and be fine in 3 years. There is nothing to suggest the White Sox even know how to develop players and have been average at best identifying young talent the last decade.

 

So let's go the same failed route of the last six years because a few fans might not show up (you know, the park was f***ing booming last August/September) if they can't see Mark's 86 MPH FB every fifth day.

Edited December 6, 201114 yr by Jordan4life

You call that rock-bottom? I'd hate to see what adjectives you use to describe what's been going on in KC & Pittsburgh the last 25 years, or the last 10 in Baltimore.

 

Considering the payroll difference, yeah, us finishing third is like them finishing last.

So let's go the same failed route of the last six years because a few fans might not show up (you know, the park was f***ing booming last August/September) if they can't see Mark's 86 MPH FB every fifth day.

So you chose the failed route of the KC Royals, Pittsburgh Pirates and Baltimore Orioles. All three at one time were considered model franchises. I just don't see what's gained by not signing Buehrle unless you are in JR's will. More payroll flexibility? If what appears to be their plan comes to fruition, payroll isn't going to be an issue. Draft picks? I am under the impression the Sox won't get one for him. Might as well keep him around.

 

It also appears some posters may not want the Sox to get very good prospects for their other players for fear they might help the Sox win some games. That would be awful. Lose all you can. That's the way to build a winner. Actually, in the NBA it probably is.

Edited December 6, 201114 yr by Dick Allen

So you chose the failed route of the KC Royals, Pittsburgh Pirates and Baltimore Orioles. All three at one time were considered model franchises. I just don't see what's gained by not signing Buehrle unless you are in JR's will.

 

The Royals and Pirates are under fairly new regime. The Orioles are just terrible from top-to-bottom. The Sox tried it a certain way. Now they've become the Cubs.

The Royals and Pirates are under fairly new regime. The Orioles are just terrible from top-to-bottom. The Sox tried it a certain way. Now they've become the Cubs.

So you're saying get awful as soon as you can, and maybe 2 or 3 or 4 regimes later, get good again. One problem with this theory, if the Sox are awful for any length of time, they aren't going to be able to afford keeping their good players and the cycle of dealing good players for prospects becomes endless.

Both sides just focusing on the absolute worst-case scenario of the opposite side. This argument is going nowhere.

Until someone can give me a scenario where a team has quickly and successfully rebuilt after a complete tear down, I am considering it to be in the realm of BigFoot, the Loch Ness Monster, and Cubs World Series titles.

I paid for a grand total of 0 tickets last season. If they do a true rebuild, I'll be back to my usual 15-20 whether or not you believe it.

If you paid for 0 tickets in a year where we had a record-setting payroll and appeared to be serious contenders to start the season, then I seriously doubt you'll go to 15-20 games when we suck major balls. Having said that, there's exceptions to every rule.

So you're saying get awful as soon as you can, and maybe 2 or 3 or 4 regimes later, get good again. One problem with this theory, if the Sox are awful for any length of time, they aren't going to be able to afford keeping their good players and the cycle of dealing good players for prospects becomes endless.

 

Honestly, I really don't give a s*** about the Royals, Pirates and what they've done the last two decades. The Sox have been throwing s*** against the wall for half a decade now and here we are. No farm and terrible contracts all over the place. The game was moving in a different direction and the Sox failed to adapt. What the hell is the difference between 65-70 wins and 75-80 wins? What? You were technically "in it" a month longer? Say what you will about the Cubs, but at least they have a plan now. Time will tell if they can execute it. Honestly, I'm afraid if Mark signs here that KW will use that as an excuse to bring back CQ, Danks, etc. I can see it now - "Hey, we didn't bring back Mr. Buehrle to throw in the towel for 2012.' f*** that.

Edited December 6, 201114 yr by Jordan4life

I was responding to his statement that anyone who says they'll support the team if they suck is full of s***.

That's not what I said at all. I know most people here will continue to go to some games and support the team just like I will. However, I find it hilarious that some people think they'd go to more games for a s***ty team than a .500 team. I'm very confident that almost every Sox fan would get tired of losing after a couple of games and decide it's better to just watch most games on TV where it's free and can be turned off when things quickly turn to s***.