The best thing we can hope for with those guys is a return to their average pre-2011 production. It is easier for me to believe it is a one year problem and will improve than to think both of them dropped so fast to non MLB level production.

Of course, for Rios, it's not just a 1 year problem, he'd had 1 good half-season of baseball since the end of 2008.

This is not a good time or offseason to be a Sox fan.

Because of three unproductive zillionaires in Dunn, Rios and Peavy we can't keep Mark Buehrle.

It's obvious Mark is gone.

Why don't we just have a team of all unlikeable underachievers?

Last place is our destiny it appears.

 

When Mark signs somewhere else we ought to at least give Paulie a break and trade him to Arizona.

 

Especially on this site when fans are still trying to move these two and finding more ways to blame Ozzie. Yawn.

 

This is not a good time or offseason to be a Sox fan.

Because of three unproductive zillionaires in Dunn, Rios and Peavy we can't keep Mark Buehrle.

It's obvious Mark is gone.

Why don't we just have a team of all unlikeable underachievers?

Last place is our destiny it appears.

 

When Mark signs somewhere else we ought to at least give Paulie a break and trade him to Arizona.

 

Is this a haiku?

Is this a haiku?

Here is some more math for you. Vernon Wells #'s the year before he got traded.

 

.273 ba/.331oba/.515 slg/.847 ops

 

31 Hr/ 88 RBI

 

 

Plus, look what happened to the GM who traded for Vernon Wells.

I don't think it is impossible to trade Rios, it will be difficult and you may need to take a bad contract back, but he can be moved. He is overpaid but has shown he is a major league caliber player. There are quite a few teams that need another OF and Rios can play all three spots well. Maybe a deal to the Rangers for Michael Young? Maybe Chone Figgins becomes the UTL? There are options out there.

 

I am not ready to give up on Dunn, he had a season that was terrible by all standards this season, but giving him up now would be a mistake. His value will never be lower than it is right now. Even if he continues to play the same way, his value rises as money comes off the contract. The same goes for Peavy, his value only goes up unless he gets injured again.

 

The Sox need to be trying to find ways to move PK and AJP, these guys are at the highest value they will be and will be on the decline by the time the Sox are ready to contend again.

I don't think it is impossible to trade Rios, it will be difficult and you may need to take a bad contract back, but he can be moved. He is overpaid but has shown he is a major league caliber player. There are quite a few teams that need another OF and Rios can play all three spots well. Maybe a deal to the Rangers for Michael Young? Maybe Chone Figgins becomes the UTL? There are options out there.

See, the problem is...if you've got a guy who is highly paid but performing (Michael Young), unless the Sox are taking on extra money, the counterparty isn't likely to do that deal. Rios has 3/$37 remaining on his contract, Young has 2/$32, so the Rangers would actually be both getting worse right now and taking on more money overall.

 

Conversely, Figgins has 2 years and $17 million remaining...so yeah, if you could do that straight up you do it and save the $15 million, but why would the Mariners eat another $15 million to take on Rios? And if the Sox have to come up with an extra $5-8 million to make that deal happen, then why do the deal in the first place?

I see the Sox Signing Albert before they have any GM dumb enough to trade for Dunn/Rios. Personally I think Dunn will bounce back, Rios.. not so much.

Edited November 25, 201114 yr by VictoryMC98

I don't say it's impossible for Dunn to bounce back but I don't see any reason whatsover to be confident that he will. My best hope is that he'll merely be lousy next year instead of mind numbing bad. Besides, baseball has turned a page from the smack em out steroid era, which included worship of one dimensionals like Adam Dunn. I'm pretty sure it's not popular, but I'd really like to see both he and Rios gone. Rios was a thoroughly unlikeable player and person last year who dogged it shamelessly. As for Dunn, I was willing to forgive him everything until he blew it with me when he couldn't even reach across the bag to snag a moderately difficult throw to first. Man you're having possibly the worst year in the history of the game and you can extend yourself a little for the team in the field? Dunn, Rios and Peavy ruined what could and should have been a worthwhile year. I still cut Peavy a little slack because of his injury, but he needs to shut up and pitch.

I don't say it's impossible for Dunn to bounce back but I don't see any reason whatsover to be confident that he will. My best hope is that he'll merely be lousy next year instead of mind numbing bad. Besides, baseball has turned a page from the smack em out steroid era, which included worship of one dimensionals like Adam Dunn. I'm pretty sure it's not popular, but I'd really like to see both he and Rios gone. Rios was a thoroughly unlikeable player and person last year who dogged it shamelessly. As for Dunn, I was willing to forgive him everything until he blew it with me when he couldn't even reach across the bag to snag a moderately difficult throw to first. Man you're having possibly the worst year in the history of the game and you can extend yourself a little for the team in the field? Dunn, Rios and Peavy ruined what could and should have been a worthwhile year. I still cut Peavy a little slack because of his injury, but he needs to shut up and pitch.

 

I can't believe people post without clearly ever reading anything from other posters on this board.

Edited November 26, 201114 yr by Milkman delivers

I can't believe people post without clearly ever reading anything from other posters on this board.

Well sorry for not profiling all of you. I realize the rage is great for these two but their contracts are an albatross and it is not uncommon to read here, there, and everywhere that they are near impossible to move. So in that context being the cautious guy I am, I phrased it in the way that upset you. Hope you and yours had a nice Thanksgiving.

Edited November 25, 201114 yr by SI1020

Rios can hit if he keeps his batting stance adjusted correctly.

Dunn may need glasses and/or a timing mechanism adjustment.

 

If these issues are remedied, then threads like this will disappear.

 

Rios .270 18 HR 80 RBI 15 SB

 

Dunn .250 35 HR 110 RBI

 

(If these things happen.)

Well sorry for not profiling all of you. I realize the rage is great for these two but their contracts are an albatross and it is not uncommon to read here, there, and everywhere that they are near impossible to move. So in that context being the cautious guy I am, I phrased it in the way that upset you. Hope you and yours had a nice Thanksgiving.

 

What I was saying is that everybody agrees with you. We'd all like to rid ourselves of them and their contracts (barring a huge resurgence from Dunn). So, labeling it as possibly being unpopular around here was kind of stupid

What I was saying is that everybody agrees with you. We'd all like to rid ourselves of them and their contracts (barring a huge resurgence from Dunn). So, labeling it as possibly being unpopular around here was kind of stupid

I knew what you were saying. Next time I'll be more careful and take a poll first.

 

Rios can hit if he keeps his batting stance adjusted correctly.

Dunn may need glasses and/or a timing mechanism adjustment.

 

If these issues are remedied, then threads like this will disappear.

 

Rios .270 18 HR 80 RBI 15 SB

 

Dunn .250 35 HR 110 RBI

 

(If these things happen.)

If those 2 come out and do those things, and start off at that pace for 2 months, I'll be happy to start more "Please Trade Dunn and Rios NOW" threads.

 

Because the second they can be moved without eating the remainder of their contracts is the second they should be moved.

If those 2 come out and do those things, and start off at that pace for 2 months, I'll be happy to start more "Please Trade Dunn and Rios NOW" threads.

 

Because the second they can be moved without eating the remainder of their contracts is the second they should be moved.

I'm an idiot for taking that opinion into consideration.

 

I'm an idiot for taking that opinion into consideration.

 

No, you seem to be an idiot right now because you still don't understand what I was saying. I said everyone agrees with you that they'd like to see them traded. I was disagreeing with your "I'm pretty sure it's not popular" statement preceding your view on Dunn and Rios. You know why? That's because it is popular.

 

Should I keep explaining this? Or do you finally understand?

If those 2 come out and do those things, and start off at that pace for 2 months, I'll be happy to start more "Please Trade Dunn and Rios NOW" threads.

 

Because the second they can be moved without eating the remainder of their contracts is the second they should be moved.

If that happens, the Sox will be in contention and they can't/won't be traded.

 

Although, I'd move Rios' deal before Dunn. They need Dunn's bat more than Rios.

If that happens, the Sox will be in contention and they can't/won't be traded.

Let me say this as clearly as I can.

 

In 2010, Alex Rios got off to a good enough start that he could have been traded, maybe for a positive return. The Sox held onto him, because they were at least partially in contention. Holding on to him was both a gamble and a mistake.

 

Alex Rios should have been traded in June/July 2010, and the failure to do so is really hurting this team.

 

I don't care if we are in contention. If those 2 hit well enough that they can be moved with the Sox eating no money...the MUST move them this time. Regardless of what position they are in the race, they have to clear those 2.

 

Failing to do so sets up the Sox for another 2011.

I'll add...I don't know of any GM's that would have the balls to actually cut and run from Dunn and Rios if the team is in first place. That doesn't make it any less of a correct decision.

Let me say this as clearly as I can.

 

In 2010, Alex Rios got off to a good enough start that he could have been traded, maybe for a positive return. The Sox held onto him, because they were at least partially in contention. Holding on to him was both a gamble and a mistake.

 

Alex Rios should have been traded in June/July 2010, and the failure to do so is really hurting this team.

 

I don't care if we are in contention. If those 2 hit well enough that they can be moved with the Sox eating no money...the MUST move them this time. Regardless of what position they are in the race, they have to clear those 2.

 

Failing to do so sets up the Sox for another 2011.

Oh, I hear you. But the right GM move and a team winning can be two separate things sometimes.

 

KW may not trade him/them if either start playing well and the team starts winning because it's bad for the team morale and fan PR.

 

There can be more in play than what the Xs and Os show and the average stat-based fan sees.

 

 

No, you seem to be an idiot right now because you still don't understand what I was saying. I said everyone agrees with you that they'd like to see them traded. I was disagreeing with your "I'm pretty sure it's not popular" statement preceding your view on Dunn and Rios. You know why? That's because it is popular.

 

Should I keep explaining this? Or do you finally understand?

Do you want to box or wrestle? Obviously not everyone agrees with me on this, so why are your panties in a bunch because I didn't phrase my original post the way you wanted? I can't stand the thought of another inning of Rios and Dunn on the Sox. It ain't gonna happen and lots of Sox fans don't agree with that opinion. This isn't the only Sox or baseball forum in the world and I've been taken to task more than once for my opinion on this subject. Maybe Rasmussen or Zogby can do a scientific poll. I'm pretty sure Rios and Dunn are about as popular as bedbugs but I'm not so sure everyone wants to trade them for a six pack and some salted peanuts which at this point I am perfectly willing to do.

 

I'm pretty sure Rios and Dunn are about as popular as bedbugs but I'm not so sure everyone wants to trade them for a six pack and some salted peanuts which at this point I am perfectly willing to do.

The real problem is that in order to trade them for that 6 pack and peanuts, you'd have to chip in $50 million right now. That's why they're not being moved yet. And no matter how much we'd dislike the sight of them in the Sox starting lineup next year, it must happen. It's the only way to start knocking down that $50 million towards an amount that might be reasonable.

The real problem is that in order to trade them for that 6 pack and peanuts, you'd have to chip in $50 million right now. That's why they're not being moved yet. And no matter how much we'd dislike the sight of them in the Sox starting lineup next year, it must happen. It's the only way to start knocking down that $50 million towards an amount that might be reasonable.

Which is what most fans seem to not understand. You cant even give these guys away without giving another team vasts amount of money. At this point, it's so unfeasible to get another team to take them on that it's best for the Sox to just hold onto them.

Which is what most fans seem to not understand. You cant even give these guys away without giving another team vasts amount of money. At this point, it's so unfeasible to get another team to take them on that it's best for the Sox to just hold onto them.

 

elrockin begs to differ.