http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/the-gms-office/post?id=3425

 

Chicago White Sox - D-

Key Transactions: Acquired RHP Nestor Molina from Toronto for RHP Sergio Santos; acquired LHP Pedro Hernandez and RHP Simon Castro from San Diego in exchange for OF Carlos Quentin; acquired RHPs Daniel Webb and Myles Jaye from Toronto for RHP Jason Frasor.

 

Bowden's Take

The White Sox allowed Ozzie Guillen to leave for the Marlins and hired Robin Ventura as manager, their best move of the offseason. Ventura should develop into a good manager and will bring a much different voice than Guillen. The White Sox landed five pitching prospects, but it cost them a 30-save closer with a club-friendly contract as well as a 20-home run outfielder. This offseason took the rebuilding White Sox in the wrong direction.

We could probably just merge all the expert analysis into one thread and call it ZOMG 2012 IS GUNNA SUX

 

I could also get a cheap burn against Bowden here but why bother.

 

 

Once again, no credit for bringing John Danks back into the fold.

 

Zero understanding of what Carlos Quentin was actually worth.

 

Still no willingness to be patience to see where Santos, Molina and Addison Reed are 2-3 years from now as big leaguers.

 

Knee jerk reactions. We saw the same types of commentaries coming into 2005.

 

How could they possibly dump Lee, Valentin and Ordonez and still expect to compete with the likes of Iguchi, Dye, Pods, Hermanson, AJ, El Duque, Pods, etc.

Pretty sure Bowden wanted Danks traded so he probably considers his extension a net negative.

 

Dude has been really backward and incorrect in basically every piece i've read. He is hardly the only puzzled by the Santos trade and CQ is basically a 1.5-2 WAR player AT BEST who is making a lot of money. THOSE ARE DEFINITELY GUYS YOU WANT ON YOUR TEAM (JIM BOWDEN 2012)

We seem to be playing the "all of these 'experts' don't know anything about our situation" card a lot recently. But perhaps they are right. When everyone disagrees with you, it doesn't always make you a profound genius that nobody understands. More often, you're just plain wrong.

Most of the expert pieces ive read acknowledge that CQ is not a special player and the return for him was never going to be great. Bowden seems to think he's a critical piece or something.

 

Santos hurt but most of the talk has focused on how Molina is a soft prospect with low upside which doesn't seem consistent with what i've read about him.

 

Really KW boned himself before this offseason even started so based on that i'd probably give him like a C.

 

 

We seem to be playing the "all of these 'experts' don't know anything about our situation" card a lot recently. But perhaps they are right. When everyone disagrees with you, it doesn't always make you a profound genius that nobody understands. More often, you're just plain wrong.

 

The board seems to be dominated by those who blamed Ozzie for most everything.

I tend to agree with the experts that our offseason sucked! And Oz had nothing to do with the offseason.

The trade of Sergio is confusing and infuriating at the same time.

Edited February 19, 201214 yr by greg775

Greg, why would it be infuriating?

 

You're leveraging a kid you only paid $50,000 for into a 6 year, cost-controlled #2-3-4 starter.

 

That's a huge positive swing.

 

Sure, if Molina doesn't do anything, gets hurt or never reaches the major, then you can moan and complain to your heart's content, not that KW can control injuries or bad luck as well.

 

The other thing you're forgetting is that Reed definitely has the capability to be an even better closer down the line, and he'll be cheaper than Santos even.

 

That said, Sergio has some great stuff and was downright dominant in stretches with us in 2010 and 2011. However, as noted by many, he imploded completely in six of those games, to the point where it was impossible for the Sox to come back and recover. Two of them were somewhat critical rivals games with the Tigers, particularly blown save #5 on the season. Sergio Santos might become the next Mariano Rivera or he might disappear from the AL by mid-season 2013, with all the talent in that division with the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays and Blue Jays.

 

Where were all the experts picking the Sox in 2000, 2005 or 2008?

 

How often have they been right about a Sox team? The only thing about the last three years was that we were really boring AND predictable, particularly 2009 and 2011. Nothing can be much worse than those 2 years, and I include 2007, because there was a lot of fun following Fields, Owens and even Wasserman that 2nd half.

 

Last year sucked from the first blown save by Thornton/Pierre onwards.

Edited February 19, 201214 yr by caulfield12

We need to accept the fact that the "experts" aren't even close to the best source of info for our favorite teams anymore. I mean, the best analysis going on anywhere is on blogs now. The "experts" are just faces on TV. I mean, when was the last time anyone said anything interesting or half true on Baseball Tonight? These guys evaluate everything only on the most superficial level, whereas we can access content from people who actually understand our team's minor league system, salary obligations, coaching staff, community, etc. anytime we want online.

The board seems to be dominated by those who blamed Ozzie for most everything.

I tend to agree with the experts that our offseason sucked! And Oz had nothing to do with the offseason.

The trade of Sergio is confusing and infuriating at the same time.

Bowden gave the Sox a D- but said their best move was making Ventura the manager. Obviously anthor "expert" that realized Ozzie wasn't the solution but part of the problem.

You're leveraging a kid you only paid $50,000 for into a 6 year, cost-controlled #2-3-4 starter.

 

That's a huge positive swing.

That analysis would work a year ago.

But at the time we traded him, we leveraged a 30 save closer into a 2/3/4 prospect, with whom many scouts question that level of upside. That's not a lot of return.

Trading him was smart - it just looks like to me it was another situation where Williams honed in on one prospect, and didn't cut a very savvy deal.

Edited February 19, 201214 yr by GreenSox

I could care less what Bowden thinks. I do find it funny that he is questioning the direction the rebuilding is going, as if he ever successfully rebuilt anything

 

Bowden should hold some more fake press conferences.

That analysis would work a year ago.

But at the time we traded him, we leveraged a 30 save closer into a 2/3/4 prospect, with whom many scouts question that level of upside. That's not a lot of return.

Trading him was smart - it just looks like to me it was another situation where Williams honed in on one prospect, and didn't cut a very savvy deal.

 

 

Or the White Sox have identified his flaws as a closer internally that they weren't aware of pre-2011.

Or the White Sox have identified his flaws as a closer internally that they weren't aware of pre-2011.

Maybe, but if true, it makes you wonder why they gave him an extension at the end of last season.

Maybe, but if true, it makes you wonder why they gave him an extension at the end of last season.

 

 

Hard to say, perhaps they had a change of heart when Molina was made available and Paddy had time to make the case for acquiring him.

 

It didn't make much sense to bring back Frasor, either, but that seemingly has turned out okay.

Maybe, but if true, it makes you wonder why they gave him an extension at the end of last season.

 

Because it was incredibly team friendly.

Because it was incredibly team friendly.

And that extension actually made him more tradeable.

Because it was incredibly team friendly.

Not if they concluded he wasn't very good.

 

And that extension actually made him more tradeable.

I would bet anything Toronto would have given KW Molina even if that extension was never in place.

 

I would bet anything Toronto would have given KW Molina even if that extension was never in place.

You're probably right...but that's more an expression of the fact that Kenny should have gotten more for Serg in that trade.

I think as long as the "baseball expert" agrees with your personal assessment of the Sox then you are happy and they are the most knowledgable baseball men in the game. If they take an opposite view then of course they know nothing and are some how anti- Sox. Maybe even to the point they they are accussed of trying to cause more problems for our team. I have made my views known of what I thought of the trades and stand bye them. Now only time will tell.

Santos was a middle-of-the-pack closer last year. It's possible he improves, but at 28 and relying as much as he does on his slider, I don't think he'll have much more than a couple of years as an upper-tier closer. I think Williams got the best deal possible for him.

Santos was a middle-of-the-pack closer last year. It's possible he improves, but at 28 and relying as much as he does on his slider, I don't think he'll have much more than a couple of years as an upper-tier closer. I think Williams got the best deal possible for him.

The problem is that afterwards, Boston came out and said that they'd have bid up the price on Santos if they'd known he was available. KW took a guy that he wanted and didn't push as hard as he could have, maybe out of fear that he'd lose him. Basically, Molina needs to dominate to prove him right, because better deals would have been out there had he worked harder.

Santos was a middle-of-the-pack closer last year. It's possible he improves, but at 28 and relying as much as he does on his slider, I don't think he'll have much more than a couple of years as an upper-tier closer. I think Williams got the best deal possible for him.

 

 

Not certain about that. H does rely on the slider as a real good out pitch, but he doesn't have a bad fastball either. How many real great pitches do one or two ining relief pitchers have anyway? Most of those I have folowed have good pitches to set up the one great out pitch, or someone like Rivera (in a class of his own obviously) has basically one great pitch and control. I was more upset with the Quentin trade. Many here didn't support him because of injuries, but his fellow players and talent scouts sure thought he was a good player. I think we could have done better in a lot of trades, but if somehow this buys us time and we can remain competitive maybe we will see all these moves as a positive. Often you don't see the positive results for a few years. We live in a world of instant gratification

The problem is that afterwards, Boston came out and said that they'd have bid up the price on Santos if they'd known he was available. KW took a guy that he wanted and didn't push as hard as he could have, maybe out of fear that he'd lose him. Basically, Molina needs to dominate to prove him right, because better deals would have been out there had he worked harder.

 

It comes down to Williams not valuing the Red Sox system as much as the Red Sox do. I have no problem with how the Santos trade was executed.