Lillian Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (mataipaepae @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 09:59 AM) Y You guys need to stop looking at it as a a bourn de aza thing. We would be getting a similar centerfielder/leadoff while using our current one to possibly upgrade 3rd base. which does improve the team. Plus hopefully it is only another year our two until walker is ready to take over centerfield/leadoff. Perhaps, but why tie up that kind of money in a player, when the team already has his position covered, at a far more attractive contract? If it's a third baseman that you are ultimately seeking, why not just put the money there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mataipaepae Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 10:26 AM) Perhaps, but why tie up that kind of money in a player, when the team already has his position covered, at a far more attractive contract? If it's a third baseman that you are ultimately seeking, why not just put the money there? Because there are no 3rd baseman on the open market to throw the money at. It has to be through a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Matai makes a good point. I don't know if we can or should do it, but the logic is sound. It would be as if you're paying the 3B, not Bourn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 04:03 AM) He's 29. You might get 2 more good seasons out of him before he gets into Juan Pierre territory. Don't you think that's too harsh? Bourn has established himself as a 5-win player over the past four years. Pierre did not come close to that. This research shows that speedy guys (not speed itself, but speedy players) age well compared to other players. Even if you don't take that into account, and just knock off the standard half-win per year from the level Bourn has established during his prime, and that's 15 wins over the next four years (4.5+4+3.5+3). Still a productive starter. I'm not sure the years or money Bourn will eventually get, but maybe the contract won't be as bad as many seem to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I can't believe so many people are comparing De Aza to Michael Bourn as being so close to each other. Yeah, sure, they use a similar skill set, but Bourn is the superior player. And Bourn is only 1 1/2 years older than De Aza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 02:13 PM) I can't believe so many people are comparing De Aza to Michael Bourn as being so close to each other. Yeah, sure, they use a similar skill set, but Bourn is the superior player. And Bourn is only 1 1/2 years older than De Aza. And he will be paid >$15 million more next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 02:39 PM) And he will be paid >$15 million more next season. And then we'd have a legit 3B, Beckham and Kepp at 2B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 03:02 PM) And then we'd have a legit 3B, Beckham and Kepp at 2B. One thing I've figured out...when making a successful move happen requires 3 different steps...it's not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 03:13 PM) I can't believe so many people are comparing De Aza to Michael Bourn as being so close to each other. Yeah, sure, they use a similar skill set, but Bourn is the superior player. And Bourn is only 1 1/2 years older than De Aza. Bourne-.274 9 57 .348 De Aza-.281 9 50 .349 Bourne had just 1 more XBH in 24 more games Yes Bourne is better on the base paths and probably in the field but I don't see why its so hard to believe the comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 02:04 PM) One thing I've figured out...when making a successful move happen requires 3 different steps...it's not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 03:30 PM) Bourne-.274 9 57 .348 De Aza-.281 9 50 .349 Bourne had just 1 more XBH in 24 more games Yes Bourne is better on the base paths and probably in the field but I don't see why its so hard to believe the comparison. Bourne also played more games than De Aza in putting those numbers up... But that's actually probably the worry with ADA...he has that much longer injury record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (mataipaepae @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 10:32 AM) Because there are no 3rd baseman on the open market to throw the money at. It has to be through a trade. So, exactly who is this stud third baseman for whom the Sox could trade de Aza, once having thrown all of that money at Bourn? Would he be another high priced player? If so, wouldn't it be better to just spend the combined salaries for Bourn and this "mystery" player, on Hamilton instead, and just keep the low cost de Aza? I'm sorry, but I don't quite see how this is going to solve the problems of acquiring an impact left handed bat, and a third baseman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 03:04 PM) One thing I've figured out...when making a successful move happen requires 3 different steps...it's not going to happen. Welp, I laid that out in my original statement, so I don't know what else to tell ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 03:30 PM) Bourne-.274 9 57 .348 De Aza-.281 9 50 .349 Bourne had just 1 more XBH in 24 more games Yes Bourne is better on the base paths and probably in the field but I don't see why its so hard to believe the comparison. You are only comparing 1 year from De Aza (2.7 WAR) vs. 1 year from Bourn (6.4 WAR). Bourn AVERAGES a great season (5 WAR). I have more much confidence in Bourn having a great season in 2013 than De Aza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 03:38 PM) So, exactly who is this stud third baseman for whom the Sox could trade de Aza, once having thrown all of that money at Bourn? Would he be another high priced player? If so, wouldn't it be better to just spend the combined salaries for Bourn and this "mystery" player, on Hamilton instead, and just keep the low cost de Aza? I'm sorry, but I don't quite see how this is going to solve the problems of acquiring an impact left handed bat, and a third baseman. De Aza + Floyd, not just De Aza. And under no circumstances do I want Josh Hamilton on this team, not even if Hahn magically finds $25M in extra money to spend next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 03:45 PM) De Aza + Floyd, not just De Aza. And under no circumstances do I want Josh Hamilton on this team, not even if Hahn magically finds $25M in extra money to spend next season. I'm very curious as to what names have been floated regarding any trade talks involving Vicideo and/or De Aza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 03:48 PM) I'm very curious as to what names have been floated regarding any trade talks involving Vicideo and/or De Aza. Yeah, I agree, especially Viciedo since his value is still future value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 04:45 PM) De Aza + Floyd, not just De Aza. And under no circumstances do I want Josh Hamilton on this team, not even if Hahn magically finds $25M in extra money to spend next season. I still don't see why not. Still have PK for a year and Dunn for 2, if you add JH to that the Sox are a title contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 02:48 PM) I'm very curious as to what names have been floated regarding any trade talks involving Vicideo and/or De Aza. Gammons said a Rangers official told the Astros on Wednesday that they had Upton. So something happened to derail it, at least momentarily. Was it losing out on Greinke or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 10:11 PM) Gammons said a Rangers official told the Astros on Wednesday that they had Upton. So something happened to derail it, at least momentarily. Was it losing out on Greinke or something else? That coluld be true. The Dodgers are becoming the new Yankees for sure. Really strange to see the Yankees pulling back from that Quarter Billion Dollar salary level. They usually buy their way to the top Edited December 9, 2012 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 8, 2012 -> 10:12 PM) You have a different definition of "all the time". Doesn't surprise me. I like reading your stuff and others who say they have sources. Makes it intersting. Keep it up Marty et al Edited December 9, 2012 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 8, 2012 -> 07:01 PM) When my source told me that Hahn thinks very highly of Guillen I was surprised too, but this is a guy who has been around them so he would know. I don't see why this statement is so out of line. Guillen is a good baseball man. I don't think he is coming back but I can see why Hahn might like Ozzie a lot. I like him too. But, Robin has done a great job Edited December 9, 2012 by elrockinMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 8, 2012 -> 12:10 PM) First, Viciedo is no Justin Upton. I applaud Hahn's effort to get creative in his pursuit of Upton, but it would have to be considered something of a longshot if he could turn Viciedo and De Aza into a group of more attractive prospects. We'll see. As for Upton, I think he's the best player on the market and well worth emptying anything we have on the farm (aside from Hawkins) to get. Think about it, when Hawkins is scheduled to be in the big leagues Upton will just be hitting his prime years. 35-40 HR's a year in his prime at the Cell. Except that Upton's only under control for 3 more years, and if he's hitting that well, there are a few teams that would outbid us for his next contract. I'd rather have De Aza and Viciedo and $12 million a year than Upton and Wise (or Danks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 03:11 PM) Gammons said a Rangers official told the Astros on Wednesday that they had Upton. So something happened to derail it, at least momentarily. Was it losing out on Greinke or something else? The rangers official could have been a little ahead of himself. I'm sure there are many moments at the trade deadline and in the offseason that people think something is done only to see it fall apart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 9, 2012 -> 02:43 PM) You are only comparing 1 year from De Aza (2.7 WAR) vs. 1 year from Bourn (6.4 WAR). Bourn AVERAGES a great season (5 WAR). I have more much confidence in Bourn having a great season in 2013 than De Aza. Bill James does not FWIW. Looking at his wOBA predictions for 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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