ZionrulZ Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 *she and, good point. The point of the article, IMO, is the message that the re-signing (or not) of Pierzynski sends. If the Sox are not going to do WHATEVER it takes to try to win a WS in 2013, then start rebuilding. They have done very little, if anything, to improve the club. Their FA acquisitions (except for Keppinger) are insignicant at best. Without AJ, the team just isn't as good as they'd be with him...that is the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 04:20 PM) Without AJ, the team just isn't as good as they'd be with him...that is the bottom line. The problem is...we really don't quite know that. AJ put up a career year last year, he's unlikely to do that again, and Flowers might well be able to give a similar level of production to AJ's normal year...but there's a downside to both. AJ might finally have age catch up with him, Flowers might get exposed in a full year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 03:20 PM) The point of the article, IMO, is the message that the re-signing (or not) of Pierzynski sends. If the Sox are not going to do WHATEVER it takes to try to win a WS in 2013, then start rebuilding. They have done very little, if anything, to improve the club. Their FA acquisitions (except for Keppinger) are insignicant at best. Without AJ, the team just isn't as good as they'd be with him...that is the bottom line. That's a pretty big assumption, which I am not willing to fully accept at this time. AJ is a 35 year old catcher, who has had the heaviest catching workload in all of baseball for a while now. He is also coming off of a career year, that might require a pretty big contract to bring back. Add to that we have a half of a million dollar catcher on the roster, who at very least, seems to be much better defensively and throwing, already... This probably isn't the best usage of funds for the White Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (forrestg @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 10:20 PM) How cheap is damn cheap. I am not a fan of his when it comes to throwing out base stealer but without that man we would be in the same predicament as the Cubs still waiting for a world series championship. We as sox fans have to pay a little respect to him. The allegiance of Aj to the managers, management, players fans should not be understated. Watching him in spring training with Ozzie etc will make you value him more. I would not be surpised if he does resign with the sox and whatever he receives I won't complain because he desrves it and it is not coming out of my pocket. Like 2 mil......................... 1 yr deal tops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 03:13 PM) Yeah he would, cuz they wouldn't have re-signed Konerko if they had Adrian Gonzalez. That's not the point anyway...the point was that no player can be ACCURATELY judged based on his first year as a starter. Mike Trout is obviously not a REAL leadoff hitter. Thanks for the knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 10:24 PM) That's a pretty big assumption, which I am not willing to fully accept at this time. AJ is a 35 year old catcher, who has had the heaviest catching workload in all of baseball for a while now. He is also coming off of a career year, that might require a pretty big contract to bring back. Add to that we have a half of a million dollar catcher on the roster, who at very least, seems to be much better defensively and throwing, already... This probably isn't the best usage of funds for the White Sox. I do not disagree that there is a struggle with bring back AJP or play the cheaper yet talented Flowers. I am leaning towards bringing back AJ. The lefty bat, durability, the proven history and the leadership he brings are all positives. I just think it boils down to do you want to win and I think AJP is a winner and makes this team one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 03:24 PM) That's a pretty big assumption, which I am not willing to fully accept at this time. AJ is a 35 year old catcher, who has had the heaviest catching workload in all of baseball for a while now. He is also coming off of a career year, that might require a pretty big contract to bring back. Add to that we have a half of a million dollar catcher on the roster, who at very least, seems to be much better defensively and throwing, already... This probably isn't the best usage of funds for the White Sox. I have no problem with starting Flowers at catcher. I just dont want that to be our only option if that fails(veteran backup would be nice). I know there alot on here looking at his upside. His downside could be pretty ugly. To be honest I think he is going to be complete bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Mike Trout is obviously not a REAL leadoff hitter. Thanks for the knowledge. Alejandro DeAza is no Mike Trout! Are you old enough to remember Mark "The Bird" Fidrych? Google him, look at his rookie numbers, then look what he did after. See also Kerry Wood, Dwight Gooden, Jerome Walton, Mark Prior, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I have no problem with starting Flowers at catcher. I just dont want that to be our only option if that fails(veteran backup would be nice). I know there alot on here looking at his upside. His downside could be pretty ugly. To be honest I think he is going to be complete bust. How can you say you have no problem starting Flowers, then say you think he'll be a total bust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 04:35 PM) How can you say you have no problem starting Flowers, then say you think he'll be a total bust? At some point you need to actually find out if a guy is a total bust or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 03:34 PM) Alejandro DeAza is no Mike Trout! Are you old enough to remember Mark "The Bird" Fidrych? Google him, look at his rookie numbers, then look what he did after. See also Kerry Wood, Dwight Gooden, Jerome Walton, Mark Prior, etc. Dontrelle Willis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 03:31 PM) I do not disagree that there is a struggle with bring back AJP or play the cheaper yet talented Flowers. I am leaning towards bringing back AJ. The lefty bat, durability, the proven history and the leadership he brings are all positives. I just think it boils down to do you want to win and I think AJP is a winner and makes this team one For my two cents, the money could be better spent elsewhere. If the Sox can't find a fit, and still have money left, then I am OK with bringing AJ back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 03:35 PM) How can you say you have no problem starting Flowers, then say you think he'll be a total bust? If you want to find out what he has then fine. I understand completely why they want to do it. Its just my personal opinion that he wont amount to anything which is why I want a veteran backup catcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 01:42 AM) That is about a $14 million difference there. Are you willing to get Bourn AND give away players to make up his salary, because that is what it would take in reality. De Aza did a fine job and even though upgrading at CF might be possible it isn't without a high cost in players and especially money IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 04:31 PM) I have no problem with starting Flowers at catcher. I just dont want that to be our only option if that fails(veteran backup would be nice). I know there alot on here looking at his upside. His downside could be pretty ugly. To be honest I think he is going to be complete bust. It would be really, really nice if we had a LH hitting backup to pair with him, but that's not AJ. You're not making AJ a backup at this point in his career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 03:37 PM) It would be really, really nice if we had a LH hitting backup to pair with him, but that's not AJ. You're not making AJ a backup at this point in his career Absolutely not and I completely understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 For my two cents, the money could be better spent elsewhere. If the Sox can't find a fit, and still have money left, then I am OK with bringing AJ back. IF they spend the money...the key word being IF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 10:36 PM) For my two cents, the money could be better spent elsewhere. If the Sox can't find a fit, and still have money left, then I am OK with bringing AJ back. I understand your position. I wonder if we aren't waiting to see who remains in the FA market after some of the bigger names get signed? There might be some real talent and bargains left out there that can upgrade a team and help them contend and you don't break the bank. I see another good relief pitcher being needed and bench strength Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 03:40 PM) IF they spend the money...the key word being IF! Oh boy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 03:40 PM) I understand your position. I wonder if we aren't waiting to see who remains in the FA market after some of the bigger names get signed? There might be some real talent and bargains left out there that can upgrade a team and help them contend and you don't break the bank. I see another good relief pitcher being needed and bench strength I think there is without a doubt we are going after relief pitching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 10:37 PM) It would be really, really nice if we had a LH hitting backup to pair with him, but that's not AJ. You're not making AJ a backup at this point in his career Exactly! AJP is not and will not be the back up if signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 04:31 PM) I do not disagree that there is a struggle with bring back AJP or play the cheaper yet talented Flowers. I am leaning towards bringing back AJ. The lefty bat, durability, the proven history and the leadership he brings are all positives. I just think it boils down to do you want to win and I think AJP is a winner and makes this team one Leadership, proven winner... What does that even mean? He's not a proven winner as he's been on mostly mediocre teams his whole career. He's not a leader. It seems that most of his teammates dislike him and the ones that are indifferent, ignore him. 3 of the best starters the team has had over the years didn't even want to throw to him. Positives: LH bat Durable Hits for average Fan favorite Negatives: Old Expensive Suspicious career year Questionable teammate Defensive hack Replacement on roster Outside of liking the guy, I have yet to see any arguments that make a convincing case to keep him. It just doesn't make sense. The guy has more red flags than... Something with a s***load of red flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Oh boy... If the Sox wanna compete with the Angels, Rangers, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Yankees and/or Detroit, they have to spend more $ to improve the team. If they don't, then rebuild! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 05:11 PM) If the Sox wanna compete with the Angels, Rangers, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Yankees and/or Detroit, they have to spend more $ to improve the team. If they don't, then rebuild! This is rebuilding. It's just rebuilding where we'd like to also have a shot at the wild card in order to keep attendance from collapsing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 We really need one of those outfield prospects to become a legit star. I think we're due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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