What I was asking was, if winning was the cure, the Sox would have been selling out at the end of the year. They weren't.

 

Once again, it's not just winning. It's winning consistently for 2 or 3 years in a row. A few months of being in first place in one season is not going to suddenly cause sell-outs.

 

 

I think this having to win multiple years in a row to expect fans to show up at the park is complete bulls***. If a team is in first place in the middle of any given season, then fans should want to come to the park. Why else are you a fan if you don't want to watch your team when they're actually competitive?

 

I don't blame anyone for not supporting a s***ty product and obviously I wouldn't expect season ticket sales to increase without sustained success, but in terms of single game tickets the product on the field right now is all that should matter. It might take some time for expections to catch up with actual results, but once a team is clearly in a playoff race the fans should want to be at games supporting their team. How a team did the previous season or how they may do the next season should be irrelevant.

 

I guess I don't get what your point is Marty.

 

It is reality though. Look at the attendance from 2005 and 2006. Guess which one is higher? But since they didn't do anything in 2006 it went down in 2007.

 

The previous season absolutely matters.

It is reality though. Look at the attendance from 2005 and 2006. Guess which one is higher? But since they didn't do anything in 2006 it went down in 2007.

 

The previous season absolutely matters.

Don't forget how important it is to be able to package the next year's season tickets along with playoff tickets. 2006 the season tickets were sold along with 2005 playoff tickets.

It is reality though. Look at the attendance from 2005 and 2006. Guess which one is higher? But since they didn't do anything in 2006 it went down in 2007.

 

The previous season absolutely matters.

I was only talking about single game tickets. I already acknowledged season tickets require sustained or established success.

 

My point is pretty simple. If it's 80+ degrees in July and the Sox are in first place, I'm going to as many games as I possibly can. I could care less how they did last year or how they might do next year. I want to enjoy the team now while they're actually good.

I was only talking about single game tickets. I already acknowledged season tickets require sustained or established success.

 

My point is pretty simple. If it's 80+ degrees in July and the Sox are in first place, I'm going to as many games as I possibly can. I could care less how they did last year or how they might do next year. I want to enjoy the team now while they're actually good.

But that is you. YOU. Those are things you do. You can't expect everyone to mimic your behavior simultaneously. There is a relatively small, dedicated core of fans that do this, probably 1/4 the fanbase if that. Then there is everyone else.

I'm not really a jersey guy. I like the player tee shirts. Sporing a Konerko one as I type this at school.

 

Take that, local society.

But that is you. YOU. Those are things you do. You can't expect everyone to mimic your behavior simultaneously. There is a relatively small, dedicated core of fans that do this, probably 1/4 the fanbase if that. Then there is everyone else.

 

I don't know. I would think other teams fanbases WOULD show up when the team was doing good. There are exceptions, of course. The O's struggled as much as we did, but they MADE the playoffs and still couldn't sell tickets. The Marlins despite winning a WS couldn't sell tickets. So that is us? In a huge market and can't sell tickets?

 

The dedicated core of fans shows up anyways, not just when they are winning. If we can't expect our fanbase to jump on the bandwagon before the playoffs, we're effed for regular season attendance. Being that it is 80+ games, that really hurts the bottom line and hampers payroll among other things.

 

So some are expecting the Sox to create a winner (for more than 3 years) with less money? Isn't that an unreal expectation?

I don't know. I would think other teams fanbases WOULD show up when the team was doing good. There are exceptions, of course. The O's struggled as much as we did, but they MADE the playoffs and still couldn't sell tickets. The Marlins despite winning a WS couldn't sell tickets. So that is us? In a huge market and can't sell tickets?

 

The dedicated core of fans shows up anyways, not just when they are winning. If we can't expect our fanbase to jump on the bandwagon before the playoffs, we're effed for regular season attendance. Being that it is 80+ games, that really hurts the bottom line and hampers payroll among other things.

 

So some are expecting the Sox to create a winner (for more than 3 years) with less money? Isn't that an unreal expectation?

Orioles fans are jaded, Baltimore is (or used to be) a strong baseball town, but they were pretty irritated with their management and ownership and just said f*** it. Until last year, they hadn't finished above .500 since I think 1997, and they had a couple of tease years where they'd lead the division at the All-Star break and then fall apart. Eventually, if they maintain this, they'll stop being dormant and start coming to games again, now that they have a team actually worth watching.

 

The Sox, on the other hand, they draw what they draw. But I would wait until at least Memorial Day to make any meaningful conclusions. We're one week into April, April baseball doesn't mean s*** by summer.

Orioles fans are jaded, Baltimore is (or used to be) a strong baseball town, but they were pretty irritated with their management and ownership and just said f*** it. Until last year, they hadn't finished above .500 since I think 1997, and they had a couple of tease years where they'd lead the division at the All-Star break and then fall apart. Eventually, if they maintain this, they'll stop being dormant and start coming to games again, now that they have a team actually worth watching.

 

The Sox, on the other hand, they draw what they draw. But I would wait until at least Memorial Day to make any meaningful conclusions. We're one week into April, April baseball doesn't mean s*** by summer.

I'll wait for the Bud Billiken Day Parade...

It is reality though. Look at the attendance from 2005 and 2006. Guess which one is higher? But since they didn't do anything in 2006 it went down in 2007.

 

The previous season absolutely matters.

It didn't from 2008 to 2009, but that was at the height of the recession.

It is reality though. Look at the attendance from 2005 and 2006. Guess which one is higher? But since they didn't do anything in 2006 it went down in 2007.

 

The previous season absolutely matters.

 

2009 declined over 2008.

It is reality though. Look at the attendance from 2005 and 2006. Guess which one is higher? But since they didn't do anything in 2006 it went down in 2007.

 

The previous season absolutely matters.

 

Exactly. So the team won 85 games last year -- the last thing that happened was a ridiculous collapse, where they blew it all AGAINST THE ODDS, proving all the skeptics right that they were worse than the Tigers. That's the taste in everyone's mouths.

 

And, during the offseason, they gave us Jeff Keppinger and nothing. I'm not saying I don't like the move or think they should have signed Hamilton, but who is really surprised that the general fan isn't pumped to go to the park in April?

Edited April 12, 201312 yr by Eminor3rd

But that is you. YOU. Those are things you do. You can't expect everyone to mimic your behavior simultaneously. There is a relatively small, dedicated core of fans that do this, probably 1/4 the fanbase if that. Then there is everyone else.

So only 1/4 of our fanbase actually wants to attend more games when the team is playing well for an extended period of time in a particular season?

 

If you really believe that, then you're implying that the rest of our fanbase doesn't care about winning at all (they'll attend a set number of games regardless of current performance) or they need a successful, completed season before they'll start attending more games.

 

I call bulls*** on that. I think the issue comes down to money and hopefully the price cuts help with that.

Look at how long it has taken Indians fans to come back and support that team after two tear downs.

 

Seattle had a HUGE fanbase a decade ago. Where is it now, without Griffey, the Big Unit, Edgar and Ichiro? Felix Hernandez alone won't get it done.

 

Braves' fans are notorious for sleepwalking through the regular season and not even showing up at playoff time. With all the excitement around Upton now, that might change a bit, although losing Chipper Jones to retirement will hurt a segment of the fans as well.

 

Except for St. Louis and the Cubs and now DET, Midwestern/near Eastern fanbases are NOTORIOUSLY fickle and only follow their teams when they're doing well, although that culture has changed a bit in MIL with the new stadium and change to the NL.

 

The White Sox fans are VERY similar to Royals, Twins, Reds, Indians and Pirates fans. The Cubs/Cardinals are the anomalies, and sometimes we lose sight of that with all the fixation on them because of the local media.

 

We have to take into consideration that we're a smaller market than LA and NY, sharing the city, and also the Midwest has been hardEST hit by the financial recession. Yes, excuses, excuses, I know. Mets fans aren't showing up, and they have a new stadium.

 

And it's not really fair to compare us to the A's/Giants situation because of their stadium/relocation issues.

 

The Baltimore/Nats relationship might be another suitable analogy, though. Even that's not entirely fair, because Camden Yards was perceived as the best of the new stadiums, and ours, originally, the worst or one of the worst.

Edited April 10, 201312 yr by caulfield12

So only 1/4 of our fanbase actually wants to attend more games when the team is playing well for an extended period of time in a particular season?

 

If you really believe that, then you're implying that the rest of our fanbase doesn't care about winning at all (they'll attend a set number of games regardless of current performance) or they need a successful, completed season before they'll start attending more games.

 

I call bulls*** on that. I think the issue comes down to money and hopefully the price cuts help with that.

This is any fanbase in any sport, not just us. Think of everyone you know who is into sports to any degree. Do ALL of them go to games religiously multiple times per year? You can say "yes! of course they do!" but I would toss your bulls*** flag back at your feet. You know people with season tickets, you know people who go to 10 or so games a year, you know people who would like to go but are unemployed or money is tight, you know people who usually check out 1-2 games a year, you know people who only watch on TV, you know people who just casually follow the team. There's all types of different fans who spend their money in different ways they deem fit. You seem to be assuming all of them behave the same.