Kyyle23 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I don't want Broussard fired, I think this was a deliberate move by ESPN to get this sort of firestorm started. I wish espn could be fined for it but they won't be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 01:19 PM) Protected speech and religious beliefs are different though. There's no protection for being racist. Obviously ESPN CAN fire him, I just think he's got a decent discrimination case. He's putting it out there what his beliefs are and if he suddenly gets fired for saying that, how is his termination not based on his religion? Whether firing him would be illegal or merely 'ridiculous' are two different issues. I'd lean in agreement with you that he'd have a discrimination lawsuit if he were fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I think what I said applies much more broadly than to just sexuality and that it applies to basically everybody. I'm never going to be gay, so I'll never know what it's really like to be in those shoes, to see things from their daily perspective, to notice some things that are harder in their lives (even if just a little bit). There's going to be issues I don't even notice because I'm straight and things I take as given that they might not be able to. That includes cultural acceptance, for example I just recently noticed that one of the new Outlook commercials features a lesbian wedding; it would be completely routine for my sexuality to be reflected in the culture around me, but not so much for LGBT people. Despite being a vocal proponent for LGBT rights, I'm sure there are subtle ways that my interactions with my gay brother differ slightly from with my straight brother if only because I'm not gay myself. This applies to any group like that that you're not a part of. I won't ever live life from a woman's perspective, or as a black person etc. That said, the more you interact with people who aren't the same as you, the more likely you are to be aware of these potential biases, to recognize and to work to correct them. When I said that I don't think it's possible to live without bias, I didn't mean intentional or mean-spirited bias, that you can't be a great person and fully accepting of your friends and family. But I don't think it's possible, psychologically, to eliminate them entirely. There was a recent study I was reading about last week that examined this: http://www.boston.com/news/science/blogs/s...aXC1K/blog.html One of the examples they highlight is that the professor was asked for an interview, turned it down, but then changed her mind when she found out the interviewer also went to Yale. That's not even a racial, sexual, etc. prejudice, but it got her thinking about "why did I make this exception for a Yale grad?" OK, but you are talking about natural forms of bias that come from people being different. Those biases have nothing to do with religious views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 02:20 PM) Well, in the context of employment it absolutely is. You cannot be terminated for your religious beliefs. If Broussard was fired yesterday/today, it's obvious it was based on his statements relating to his religious beliefs. It had nothing to do with his actually employment. That's a good discrimination case from his side. Edit: I don't think this is absolute, but I think here, within the context of his statements, it would be. Just to point this out again.... In about 60% of the states in this country...he cannot be fired for his religious beliefs...but if he had come out as gay, he could be fired for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 01:27 PM) And he wouldnt be terminated for his beliefs. Hed be terminated for his actions on a tv show that were in conflict with his employment agreement. Just because a statement has "religion" in it, does not mean your employer all of a sudden cant do anything. If I walk up to my secretary and say "My religion says I can put my dick in your mouth because Im a man and your my inferior" Do they just sit on their hands and say: "Well s***, its his religion, guess we gotta let him rape a ho." Its absolutely ludicrous that you can not differentiate between "being fired because you are a Christian" and "being fired because you happened to say/do something stupid but had a "religious" context." This is pretty basic. The actual reason why you dont fire Broussard is because a good portion of ESPN's viewers are idiots and this type of controversy drives ratings. Soxbadger that's a silly example. Broussard hasn't infringed on anyone else's rights like you would be doing (either physically or via sexual harassment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 01:30 PM) OK, but you are talking about natural forms of bias that come from people being different. Those biases have nothing to do with religious views. Right, so I think that if you believe that being LGBT is a sin, it's going to affect your thoughts in some way. It could be incredibly minor and you can still have great relationships with friends/family, but it's going to be there imo. Really this is more of a tangent and I think we're basically in agreement here, I was just using it as an opportunity to point out that everyone has their own biases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 01:16 PM) It often is in this country. Just declare something "sacred" and you shield it from criticism. Just look at Ray Lewis. "Did you kill that guy in 2000?" "Would god let me do what I do if I did?" Or you can quote Derrick Rose's "only god knows" comment about when he will be back. Edited April 30, 2013 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 01:30 PM) Soxbadger that's a silly example. Broussard hasn't infringed on anyone else's rights like you would be doing (either physically or via sexual harassment). It really isnt. If religion makes things "ok", then I can do it. I used an absurd example because that is how you test the legitimacy of an argument. Otherwise we have to agree that you can be fired for breaking the rules of your employment, regardless of whether you base it on religion or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 What violation? He said his opinion on TV? That's his job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Right, so I think that if you believe that being LGBT is a sin, it's going to affect your thoughts in some way. It could be incredibly minor and you can still have great relationships with friends/family, but it's going to be there imo. Really this is more of a tangent and I think we're basically in agreement here, I was just using it as an opportunity to point out that everyone has their own biases. Well, I will say this: If you intentionally avoid having any relationships with LGBT people because of your religious beliefs, then yes, you will most certainly have some extra bias against them, but then that kind of action would be counter to what Christianity teaches in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 01:34 PM) It really isnt. If religion makes things "ok", then I can do it. I used an absurd example because that is how you test the legitimacy of an argument. Otherwise we have to agree that you can be fired for breaking the rules of your employment, regardless of whether you base it on religion or not. What rule did he break? You're just making s*** up at this point. You not agreeing with what he said =/= him violating his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 02:37 PM) What rule did he break? You're just making s*** up at this point. You not agreeing with what he said =/= him violating his contract. Obviously his contract has to include some language allowing for termination if he says something particularly offensive to a group that ESPN wouldn't be willing to offend, that would be standard for their contributors at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 01:35 PM) What violation? He said his opinion on TV? That's his job... Im sure his employment contract has something about "conduct detrimental to the company". If in their determination it was detrimental, why could they not fire him? Simply saying "oh its his opinion based on religion" is not a get out of jail free card in any document I have ever seen. But this is all speculation. I just dont buy that he is somehow being discriminated against for his religion, hes being called out for being unnecessarily hateful. And I really like to burn people like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 It really isnt. If religion makes things "ok", then I can do it. I used an absurd example because that is how you test the legitimacy of an argument. Otherwise we have to agree that you can be fired for breaking the rules of your employment, regardless of whether you base it on religion or not. I would most certainly agree that in some other context, Broussard could have been fired or at least reprimanded for his comments, but ESPN put him on OTL and almost certainly knew what he was going to say so it would be hypocritical to turn around and fire him now. Dana Jacobson got suspended for a week for saying "f*** Jesus" at an ESPN event, so there is precedent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 01:38 PM) Obviously his contract has to include some language allowing for termination if he says something particularly offensive to a group that ESPN wouldn't be willing to offend, that would be standard for their contributors at this point. I highly doubt a jury of 12 would see it as being terminated for offending people versus terminated for being Christian and talking about his Christian beliefs in response to a question about a homosexual basketball player. I'd take this case every day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Look I dont care if he is fired, Ive never advocated for his firing. I was simply responding to the nonsense argument that he COULDNT BE FIRED because it was religious based. Nothing more, nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 01:40 PM) I would most certainly agree that in some other context, Broussard could have been fired or at least reprimanded for his comments, but ESPN put him on OTL and almost certainly knew what he was going to say so it would be hypocritical to turn around and fire him now. Dana Jacobson got suspended for a week for saying "f*** Jesus" at an ESPN event, so there is precedent. Wasn't that also based on the fact that she was drunk as a skunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 01:42 PM) Look I dont care if he is fired, Ive never advocated for his firing. I was simply responding to the nonsense argument that he COULDNT BE FIRED because it was religious based. Nothing more, nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Wasn't that also based on the fact that she was drunk as a skunk. Yes, but just being drunk isn't getting her suspended for a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 07:35 PM) What violation? He said his opinion on TV? That's his job... His opinion of sports, not his religious opinion. "New York team sells arena naming rights to Chicago's Superdawg" Sports opinion: The extra revenue will be good for the team. Sports opinion: New Yorkers may be upset that the name was sold to a Chicago business. Sports opinion: Superdawg Arena is a really lame name. Not a sports opinion: The team owner is going to go to hell for promoting pork products that the Lord says are unclean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 01:42 PM) I highly doubt a jury of 12 would see it as being terminated for offending people versus terminated for being Christian and talking about his Christian beliefs in response to a question about a homosexual basketball player. I'd take this case every day of the week. Youd be betting on the jury being bigots. Id be betting on the jury being good people. I think Id win more than Id lose, but I admit regardless of the correctness of my view, I would be fighting an uphill battle because many people have small minded views and would want to champion Broussard for his opinion. It wouldnt be about the law, it would be about hating gay people. And that is the saddest part of this entire discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Lol, what a reaction. /thread now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 Lawyer-on-lawyer crime... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 12:09 PM) Lol, what a reaction. /thread now Let's face it...they'd fire him for something in his contract and if he raised a stink, which they would, they'd settle with him for an undisclosed amount of money out of court, and then he'd turn up on Fox or some lesser channel in 6 months or a year. As Kyle pointed out, ESPN put him on OTL knowing he would say this. The entire purpose of the show is to explore issues like this outside of their usual sports-only context (thus the name). I think it was in poor taste by both of them to air it on the same day as the story broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 30, 2013 -> 03:27 PM) Let's face it...they'd fire him for something in his contract and if he raised a stink, which they would, they'd settle with him for an undisclosed amount of money out of court, and then he'd turn up on Fox or some lesser channel in 6 months or a year. As Kyle pointed out, ESPN put him on OTL knowing he would say this. The entire purpose of the show is to explore issues like this outside of their usual sports-only context (thus the name). I think it was in poor taste by both of them to air it on the same day as the story broke. And the thing is everyone is talking about it. ESPN wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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