Yeah no. SOME of them were, including some of the more prominent ones (Jefferson, Franklin and possibly Washington). Though it's still debated how to classify their beliefs since they agreed with Deist principles yet also believed God impacted human activity. The majority were, or had significant roots in, Christianity.

 

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

 

but the ones who... well... mattered. and the ones the right always fall back on as the "christian" founding fathers (franklin, jefferson, etc) were... well... not

A few of those guys probably had boys in their beds too. Just like alot of the folks that edited that novel called the Bible over the centuries.

QFT

The LGBT community has just gotten louder the last decade, as has the "cause," so the "anti-" crowd has been equally loud in response. The Christian faith has ALWAYS had a problem with adultery. It was made illegal in most states because of it and some states still have laws on the books making it illegal (Illinois included). There's not much more to be said about how Christians shouldn't do it.

 

You're really going to keep pretending that anti-LGBT animus is the same as every other religious sin receives?

 

The LGBT community has made huge strides over the past decade. Several states have legalized marriage equality. DOMA's likely going to fail and would never, ever be passed today. DADT is dead. Public opinion has shifted rapidly just since 2004, when anti-gay measures were used to drive GOTV efforts for Bush. The homophobic bigots crowd has gotten quieter and weaker with their opposition, not louder. They're losing, and they know it.

 

And LOL if you don't believe this was all about PR. Yes, it's great that he finally felt comfortable to do this, but people were falling all over themselves trying to praise the guy. Oh! Obama even called him! Remember? The guy that didn't want gays to be married 6 months ago because they lived in sin?

 

Yes, it was about public relations; a professional athlete in the US was able to come out publicly as a gay man. He has received widespread support, showing us all that anti-LGBT bigotry is not going to be widely tolerated as it once was. Also conservatives need to stop crying about Obama and marriage equality.

 

Oh, but he's a hero! f*** that. He's a professional basketball player who came out at the end of his career to an overwhelmingly accepting/apathetic country. He's not a hero. Gays are everywhere in our culture. Stop pretending like 99% of the country wants to persecute gays and what this guy did is equal to Rosa Parks. You'll notice that the collective response from your average American was "oh, ok."

 

He made a huge personal step. He may very well be a hero to thousands of young gay people who saw someone take that courageous first step and get such strong support from friends, teammates, family and even the damn President of the United States. That the country is overwhelming accepting is substantial in its own right. Nobody is comparing him to Rosa Parks, except people trying to make some weak-ass points because their bigotry isn't accepted anymore.

 

Come on Jenks. You have to understand that Collins coming out is, in fact, a big deal.

 

On Broussard, I put the blame on ESPN for providing that platform. Broussard should have been smarter about what he said, but ESPN shouldn't have tried to cover this from anything other than a sports angle.

I agree...ESPN should have been respectful enough of this day to hold off on bringing in Chris Broussard's religious beliefs into the discussion.

 

Look how stupid all the idiots look now who voiced their beliefs against Jackie Robinson playing in the Major Leagues. Chris Broussard is going to look similarly stupid (though obviously not to the degree) for voicing his on the same day this story broke.

Who exactly has done that?

 

Everyone covering the story yesterday? The fact that he got a personal call from the President? I'm sure he's not LITERALLY going to get a medal, but he's being treated like a national hero.

I think it's significant, I don't think it's something to give the guy a medal for.

I haven't seen any medals handed out, but if you don't think what Jason Collins has done took a great deal of strength and courage, then you're nuts. He should be commended.

Everyone covering the story yesterday? The fact that he got a personal call from the President? I'm sure he's not LITERALLY going to get a medal, but he's being treated like a national hero.

What he did was important for himself and many others who, thanks to the bigotry of others, struggle with who they are and with being open about it. He deserves widespread support and recognition for having the courage to come out.

but the ones who... well... mattered. and the ones the right always fall back on as the "christian" founding fathers (franklin, jefferson, etc) were... well... not

 

Well, first, who "mattered" wasn't the original point, but second, you need to go back and read up on these guys before proclaiming for a fact what they believed and how they classified themselves. It's not at all clear cut like you're suggesting.

I agree...ESPN should have been respectful enough of this day to hold off on bringing in Chris Broussard's religious beliefs into the discussion.

 

Look how stupid all the idiots look now who voiced their beliefs against Jackie Robinson playing in the Major Leagues. Chris Broussard is going to look similarly stupid (though obviously not to the degree) for voicing his on the same day this story broke.

 

I don't think it's the same thing. Pretty much all but the most extreme fringe religions now accept integration and have for a while. I don't think that is ever going to be the case with homosexuality.

 

I don't think it's the same thing. Pretty much all but the most extreme fringe religions now accept integration and have for a while. I don't think that is ever going to be the case with homosexuality.

It's not the same thing, which is why I mentioned it is a matter of degree, but it is still a step in a similar vein, and should be recognized as such.

What he did was important for himself and many others who, thanks to the bigotry of others, struggle with who they are and with being open about it. He deserves widespread support and recognition for having the courage to come out.

 

This is the type of hyperbolic crap I just don't buy. 2 days ago 99.9% of the country didn't know who this guy was. They'd never heard of him. And now you're telling me that a complete nobody who came out is going to help other people? Really? You don't think this is media spin just a tad because they've been waiting for this story for so long?

 

This is the type of hyperbolic crap I just don't buy. 2 days ago 99.9% of the country didn't know who this guy was. They'd never heard of him. And now you're telling me that a complete nobody who came out is going to help other people? Really? You don't think this is media spin just a tad because they've been waiting for this story for so long?

So unless LeBron James or Kevin Durant came out of the closet, the strength Jason Collins showed to blaze the trails in the NBA of all leagues is meaningless. You must be a real blast at parties.

This is the type of hyperbolic crap I just don't buy. 2 days ago 99.9% of the country didn't know who this guy was. They'd never heard of him. And now you're telling me that a complete nobody who came out is going to help other people? Really? You don't think this is media spin just a tad because they've been waiting for this story for so long?

It's not about Jason Collins. And, yes, this is going to help other people, really. I don't understand how you can think it wouldn't.

Everyone covering the story yesterday? The fact that he got a personal call from the President? I'm sure he's not LITERALLY going to get a medal, but he's being treated like a national hero.

 

what's wrong with that?

This is the type of hyperbolic crap I just don't buy. 2 days ago 99.9% of the country didn't know who this guy was. They'd never heard of him. And now you're telling me that a complete nobody who came out is going to help other people? Really? You don't think this is media spin just a tad because they've been waiting for this story for so long?

 

yeah.

 

based on the reaction from my gay friends on facebook, it absolutely helps other people. it helps the movement. how can you not get this?

So unless LeBron James or Kevin Durant came out of the closet, the strength Jason Collins showed to blaze the trails in the NBA of all leagues is meaningless. You must be a real blast at parties.

 

It's not meaningless and I said this story is significant. I just don't think the ZOMG! FINALLY, A PROFESSIONAL SPORTS PLAYER HAS COME OUT, QUEUE THE PARADE! response was really justified. That's all.

It's not meaningless and I said this story is significant. I just don't think the ZOMG! FINALLY, A PROFESSIONAL SPORTS PLAYER HAS COME OUT, QUEUE THE PARADE! response was really justified. That's all.

 

why not?

 

It's not meaningless and I said this story is significant. I just don't think the ZOMG! FINALLY, A PROFESSIONAL SPORTS PLAYER HAS COME OUT, QUEUE THE PARADE! response was really justified. That's all.

But why not? It's a huge deal. Jason Collins has gigantic balls and I applaud him. I guess you can feel how you want, but to question why other people are so proud of him and respect the move is just silly.

It's not meaningless and I said this story is significant. I just don't think the ZOMG! FINALLY, A PROFESSIONAL SPORTS PLAYER HAS COME OUT, QUEUE THE PARADE! response was really justified. That's all.

Maybe because you aren't gay?

Maybe because you aren't gay?

 

or any minority I'd be willing to bet.

It's not meaningless and I said this story is significant. I just don't think the ZOMG! FINALLY, A PROFESSIONAL SPORTS PLAYER HAS COME OUT, QUEUE THE PARADE! response was really justified. That's all.

 

Sometimes it is really sad how much you actively try to minimize accomplishments and events because they don't affect you personally. There are a lot of people in this world that are a hell of a lot more affected by this than you will ever admit to.

Sometimes it is really sad how much you actively try to minimize accomplishments and events because they don't affect you personally. There are a lot of people in this world that are a hell of a lot more affected by this than you will ever admit to.

this is a perfect description of the difference between those who are more conservative and those who lean more progressive - whether we're talking about social policy or... well... anything.

 

if it doesn't affect me, it's stupid that we're talking about it.

 

start looking at the bigger picture. it's really not that difficult.

I think the difference in this is how absolutely driven by masculinity and testosterone male professional locker rooms are and the stigma that comes from being gay. Jason Collins has put himself at risk to be persecuted and outcast by his peers by a simple admission and look into his own life.

 

I'm really hoping Nate Jackson writes an article on this.

I get that people who think being gay is a sin and stuff, will react negatively to this and question why people are making a big deal out of it.

 

And there are probably some people who this is a bigger deal to than any NBA championship, sporting title etc.

 

Hopefully this will lead to more tolerance and acceptance.

 

Sometimes it is really sad how much you actively try to minimize accomplishments and events because they don't affect you personally. There are a lot of people in this world that are a hell of a lot more affected by this than you will ever admit to.

 

So I shouldn't have an opinion on the response to this story because it doesn't affect me? Come on. I'm not trying to minimize anything. I'm not bashing this guy. I'm not saying it's a non-story. I'm not saying it's meaningless. I'm saying let's tone down the historical relevance here because it's a career bench player coming out after his (most likely) last season playing. He's basically John Amaechi part two.

 

I just think the reaction is a stretch. It's people having this story tee'd up for so long and now that it's here they're going overboard. Obviously you all disagree with me and that's fine. We'll agree to disagree. I have a general problem with the media and people generally over sensationalizing everything. This is just another example.