How Should Rick Hahn Fix The White Sox

[caulfield12]

I would like to see the Sox take their lumps for a few more years as they rebuild the team, and in doing so they'll accumulate high draft picks.

 

I think Rick Hahn did a wonderful job at the trade deadline by landing a player like Garcia, who I think is going to be an all-star caliber player for years to come. And more importantly he shed tons and tons of payroll, granting the Sox major financial flexibility and room to operate. With this money I would like to see Rick Hahn completely overhaul the scouting department, by luring away top scouts from other teams, like the Dodgers for example. And most importantly I want to see this money go to amateur talent, whether its the draft or LA.

 

The Sox could potentially land an impact prospect with the number 3 pick in the draft (Here's to you Jacob Gatewood), look at what Theo has been able to accomplish on the North Side in just a short amount of time. Since he became the President of the Cubs they have acquired guys like Albert Almora, Jorge Soler, Kris Bryant, Eloy Jimenez, and they traded for a guy like Anthony Rizzo. Maybe the Sox, should take notes.

 

And the White Sox won the Baseball America "Organization of the Year" in 2000 but almost none of those players had anything to do with the 2005 World Series championship with the exceptions of Mark Buehrle, who was barely on the radar as a prospect, and Jon Garland, who came over from the Cubs (ouch!)

 

Their top guys at the time, Jon Rauch and Joe Borchard, did almost nothing for the Sox.

 

Next you're going to argue that Castro was developed by Theo, too. Maybe you don't want to mention that name?

 

 

If you want to raid scouting departments, it should be teams like the Rangers, A's and especially the Rays...anyone can be effective with an unlimited budget to sign guys like Puig and Ryu or take on massive contracts in Adrian Gonzalez, Zack Greinke and Carl Crawford.

 

By the way, the Cubs were a disappointing 12th in the Attendance/Revenue Generation Championships. First time outside the Top 10 in ages.

 

And there probably should be some special type of Theo-ish reward for that incredible deal they gave Edwin Jackson, too. And full credit for the amazing strides made by their ace hurler who easily surpassed Chris Sale in the hearts and minds of baseball scouts everywhere this season.

Edited October 4, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

And the White Sox won the Baseball America "Organization of the Year" in 2000 but almost none of those players had anything to do with the 2005 World Series championship with the exceptions of Mark Buehrle, who was barely on the radar as a prospect, and Jon Garland, who came over from the Cubs (ouch!)

 

Their top guys at the time, Jon Rauch and Joe Borchard, did almost nothing for the Sox.

 

Next you're going to argue that Castro was developed by Theo, too. Maybe you don't want to mention that name?

 

 

If you want to raid scouting departments, it should be teams like the Rangers, A's and especially the Rays...anyone can be effective with an unlimited budget to sign guys like Puig and Ryu or take on massive contracts in Adrian Gonzalez, Zack Greinke and Carl Crawford.

 

By the way, the Cubs were a disappointing 12th in the Attendance/Revenue Generation Championships. First time outside the Top 10 in ages.

 

And there probably should be some special type of Theo-ish reward for that incredible deal they gave Edwin Jackson, too. And full credit for the amazing strides made by their ace hurler who easily surpassed Chris Sale in the hearts and minds of baseball scouts everywhere this season.

 

The Cubs don't even get the attendance trophy this year?

 

[Chicago White Sox]

I laugh when I see posts complimenting Theo for all he's accomplished. All he's done is purposely lose to accumulate high draft picks and large international bonus pools, which any GM can do with ease if they so desire. I'm sorry, but until some of these prospects turn into productive major leaguers, he's really accomplished nothing IMO. I haven't really seen any creativity or risk-taking to accelerate their small market approach to rebuilding with the exception of the Edwin Jackson signing, which has been a huge diaster so far. Not very impressed with what I've seen so far out of Theo.

[caulfield12]

I laugh when I see posts complimenting Theo for all he's accomplished. All he's done is purposely lose to accumulate high draft picks and large international bonus pools, which any GM can do with ease if they so desire. I'm sorry, but until some of these prospects turn into productive major leaguers, he's really accomplished nothing IMO. I haven't really seen any creativity or risk-taking to accelerate their small market approach to rebuilding with the exception of the Edwin Jackson signing, which has been a huge diaster so far. Not very impressed with what I've seen so far out of Theo.

 

But he was so darned creative getting rid of Garza, Zambrano and Soriano!!!

The Garza trade was the opposite of Broglio for Brock, essentially.

 

And Kris Bryant is sure to follow in the time-honored tradition of Gary Scott and Kevin Orie.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

You are right but those players are going to make up the next great core of the Cubs going forward. And Anthony Rizzo is going to be fine, it was his first full year in the bigs.

Lol...of course they will as prospects never flop!

[southsider2k5]

Lol...of course they will as prospects never flop!

 

For perspective sake, Rizzo has 24 less MLB PAs than Dayan Viciedo. (1235 vs 1211)

[LittleHurt05]

For perspective sake, Rizzo has 24 less MLB PAs than Dayan Viciedo. (1235 vs 1211)

 

Career OPS:

 

Viciedo. .738

Rizzo. .735

[Chicago White Sox]

For perspective sake, Rizzo has 24 less MLB PAs than Dayan Viciedo. (1235 vs 1211)

And guess who has the higher career OPS yet is considered a bust.

[caulfield12]

And guess who has the higher career OPS yet is considered a bust.

 

"work in progress"

 

Domonic Brown and Chris Davis took even longer to find themselves...there's a decent chance that Dayan can get there too, and he's been through so many position changes as well

 

that said, last year was miserable for the entire organization and there should be a "reboot/refresh" for the entire team starting in Spring Training

[southsider2k5]

And guess who has the higher career OPS yet is considered a bust.

 

And is five months younger.

[caulfield12]

And is five months younger.

 

Everyone knows Ramirez and Viciedo are 2-3 years older than their "official" ages...

[southsider2k5]

Everyone knows Ramirez and Viciedo are 2-3 years older than their "official" ages...

 

It all goes to the same perception gap. Because it is a Cubs prospect, everyone is all googly eyed, despite reality.

[Vance Law]

Career OPS:

 

Viciedo. .738

Rizzo. .735

 

De Aza .744

 

[SoxAce]

You do not retool a 99 loss team you rebuild.

 

Bingo.

[caulfield12]

This whole retooling thing is coming from having the core of the pitching staff in place....Sale, Quintana, Santiago, Danks, Johnson, Reed and Nate Jones.

 

So that we're RETOOLING our starting line-up/offense but not rebuilding our entire team.

 

The problem is that every one of our starters offensively has a laundry list of flaws and could be replaced as early as 2015...with the possible exception of Avisail Garcia.

 

Of course, with the state of the minor league system, it's hard to say that "retooling" is all that's needed. It's the entire, systemic approach of the organization that's being questioned, other than pitching development.

[hi8is]

Bingo.

It's not that simple boys and girls.

This year is an extremely different offseason, for two major reasons.

 

One...

Our payroll going into the offseason is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than in years past.

I'm not that sure of the exact numbers but...

Peavy +12M

Konerko +12M

Rios +12M

Crain +3M

 

Next year we've got, what... +15M from Dunn?

 

Point being... We've got a lot of cash to play with this year or the next.

We're also getting +25M from the TV deal.

 

In the next two years, we're looking at least +80M

I don't remember anytime in the past where we had this much payroll flexibility going into an offseason.

 

If we trade Danks and or Alexi - that's even more money to rebuild or retool - whatever you chose or would like to call it. Either way, the coin is a coin... No matter which side you're hoping it to land on.

 

Two...

We've got a new GM at the helm who we really don't have a pulse on yet.

Last offseason we weren't coming off a near 100 loss season... It was quite the opposite, remember?

 

Who knows what this much flexibility in Hanh's hands will amount to.

I can tell you this thou - it is a part of the plan... A plan that has been forming for the past few months.

 

If it was me... I'm looking to let konerko go even if he doesn't retire... Sign Abreu or Morlaes... Sign Tanaka... Sign Salty or McCann... Trade Alexi for farm talent or a bench piece... Trade Quintana for a third baseman like Lowrie... I'd also give DeAza another year to pull his base running and defensive act together... He's a nice bat at the top and is on the cheap.

 

You go into 2014 with what could be a formidable threat.

CF - DeAza

3B - Lowrie

1B - Abreu

RF - Garcia

C - McCann

LF - Tank

DH - Dunn

2B - Beckham

SS - Semien

 

Sale

Tanaka

Danks

Santiago

Johnson

 

Figure out the bullpen order with Reizno in there and put together a bench... Give it a shot in 2014 while still building towards 2015.

 

Blast away.

 

(edit - bats are better than bars.)

Edited October 6, 2013 by hi8is

[caulfield12]

It's not that simple boys and girls.

This year is an extremely different offseason, for two major reasons.

 

One...

Our payroll going into the offseason is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than in years past.

I'm not that sure of the exact numbers but...

Peavy +12M

Konerko +12M

Rios +12M

Crain +3M

 

Next year we've got, what... +15M from Dunn?

 

Point being... We've got a lot of cash to play with this year or the next.

We're also getting +25M from the TV deal.

 

In the next two years, we're looking at least +80M

I don't remember anytime in the past where we had this much payroll flexibility going into an offseason.

 

If we trade Danks and or Alexi - that's even more money to rebuild or retool - whatever you chose or would like to call it. Either way, the coin is a coin... No matter which side you're hoping it to land on.

 

Two...

We've got a new GM at the helm who we really don't have a pulse on yet.

Last offseason we weren't coming off a near 100 loss season... It was quite the opposite, remember?

 

Who knows what this much flexibility in Hanh's hands will amount to.

I can tell you this thou - it is a part of the plan... A plan that has been forming for the past few months.

 

If it was me... I'm looking to let konerko go even if he doesn't retire... Sign Abreu or Morlaes... Sign Tanaka... Sign Salty or McCann... Trade Alexi for farm talent or a bench piece... Trade Quintana for a third baseman like Lowrie... I'd also give DeAza another year to pull his base running and defensive act together... He's a nice bat at the top and is on the cheap.

 

You go into 2014 with what could be a formidable threat.

CF - DeAza

3B - Lowrie

1B - Abreu

RF - Garcia

C - McCann

LF - Tank

DH - Dunn

2B - Beckham

SS - Semien

 

Sale

Tanaka

Danks

Santiago

Johnson

 

Figure out the bullpen order with Reizno in there and put together a bench... Give it a shot in 2014 while still building towards 2015.

 

Blast away.

 

(edit - bats are better than bars.)

 

They better do their "due diligence" if they're legitimately interested in Tanaka.

 

Phenoms who get results based on command/control and not pure stuff over in Japan tend to fare poorly in the US.

 

Would hate to see them commit Danks numbers to another pitcher who ends up as a 4/5 or not even in the rotation....and if you look at the wear and tear on his arm, well, one only needs to go back as far as Dice K to see how that story ended.

 

 

You are making me hungry for Quizno's, lol. Reizno's must be their competitor.

 

[hi8is]

They better do their "due diligence" if they're legitimately interested in Tanaka.

Homie is supposed to have a crazy slider, splitter, and is getting a lot of ground ball outs.

I'd love to roll the dice on him in place of Santiago or Q, using them as trade bait for a 3B.

 

You catch my drift thou.

 

The next two years will be really interesting.

Hanh has payroll and roster flexibility.

 

Game on.

 

Things aren't really as bad as people think, IMO.

[caulfield12]

Homie is supposed to have a crazy slider, splitter, and is getting a lot of ground ball outs.

I'd love to roll the dice on him in place of Santiago or Q, using them as trade bait for a 3B.

 

You catch my drift thou.

 

The next two years will be really interesting.

Hanh has payroll and roster flexibility.

 

Game on.

 

Things aren't really as bad as people think, IMO.

 

Of course, the Devil's Advocate position is that all the bad contracts (Konerko this year, Danks, Dunn, Rios for 50-60% of his time with the Sox, arguably Ramirez now) are what put us in this difficult position.

 

You have to be be very careful with Japanese pitchers. There's a long list of guys like Irabu, Dice K, Kei Igawa, etc., to go along with the success stories like Nomo, Iwakuma, Kuroda or Darvish (so far).

[flavum]

How should Hahn fix the White Sox? By not doing anything dumb between now and Opening Day 2015. No Band-Aid approach.

 

Keep making smart trades for good prospects who have brains

Don't sign anyone over 30 to a deal for more than two years

Poach some scouts/player development people from other organizations that know what they're doing.

Get a real manager after 2014 when Reinsdorf will let him

Edited October 6, 2013 by flavum

[caulfield12]

How should Hahn fix the White Sox? By not doing anything dumb between now and Opening Day 2015. No Band-Aid approach.

 

Keep making smart trades for good prospects who have brains

Don't sign anyone over 30 to a deal for more than two years

Poach some scouts/player development people from other organizations that know what they're doing.

Get a real manager after 2014 when Reinsdorf will let him

 

 

I'd say the limit for a player 30-35 should be 3 years and 35+ should be two years.

 

Of course, that wipes out Ellsbury and Choo.

 

Maybe you can sign McCann or Morales to three year deals....or two, with club or mutual options.

 

And it looks like we're on the outside looking in as far as the Abreu deal goes. Weird that ESPN hasn't been covering it much...

Edited October 6, 2013 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

And it looks like we're on the outside looking in as far as the Abreu deal goes.

I'm not sure how anyone would know where teams stand other than Abreu's agent. It's a blind bid process and I'm pretty sure bids were all due at roughly the same time. This thing is ultimately going to come to the money, with other factors like Cuban presence (players or fanbase), weather, and ability to win serving as possible tie-breakers. So if the Sox weren't planning on making an offer in the $50 to $60M range, they never had a chance to begin with. Will be interesting to see what he ends up getting and where the Sox came in (assuming that figure leaks).

[caulfield12]

I'm not sure how anyone would know where teams stand other than Abreu's agent. It's a blind bid process and I'm pretty sure bids were all due at roughly the same time. This thing is ultimately going to come to the money, with other factors like Cuban presence (players or fanbase), weather, and ability to win serving as possible tie-breakers. So if the Sox weren't planning on making an offer in the $50 to $60M range, they never had a chance to begin with. Will be interesting to see what he ends up getting and where the Sox came in (assuming that figure leaks).

 

 

Just from the comments in the last 24 hours....but then, look what happened with the A's shocking the world and winning the bidding for Cespedes.

 

Still, I would put the odds at 5-10% but I would love to be pleasantly surprised and see that's we posted the highest bid.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just from the comments in the last 24 hours....but then, look what happened with the A's shocking the world and winning the bidding for Cespedes.

 

Still, I would put the odds at 5-10% but I would love to be pleasantly surprised and see that's we posted the highest bid.

But I haven't seen any comments that state specific dollar amounts, so I'm not sure what these "insiders" are basing their speculation on. I personally think that everything out there right now is misdirection. Only Abreu and his agents really know what everyone team offered. Hopefully he makes a decision soon to give us all something to talk about.

[Eminor3rd]

And guess who has the higher career OPS yet is considered a bust.

 

And guess which one has demonstrated he has a clue at the plate. And can make contact regularly. Oh, wait, that's definitely NOT Viciedo.

 

MLB Averages: O-Swing = 31.0%, Z-Swing = 65.5%, Z-Contact = 87.0%

Anthony Rizzo: O-Swing = 30.0%, Z-Swing = 66.5%, Z-Contact = 89.1% (102 wRC+)

Dayan Viciedo: O-Swing = 42.5%, Z-Swing = 73.5%, Z-Contact = 82.9% (96 wRC+)

 

One of those lines looks like a Major League hitter, the other looks like a minor leaguer being challenged by stuff way above his skill level.