De Aza is a 4th outfielder for an NL team. He can pinch hit, fill in for a regular on the DL, pinch run for slow guys.

 

De Aza OPS in 1463 plate appearances with the Sox .763

Viciedo OPS in 1235 plate appearnaces with the Sox .738

 

That's the lead-off hitter/ center fielder vs. the guy many want to be moved to first base.

One thing worth pointing out:

 

fWAR:

Alejandro De Aza, 2012 and 2013: 2.7 and 2.2

Curtis Granderson, same years: 2.3 and 1.4 (Granderson had 245 PA's in 2013 if you'd like to project to a full season).

 

bWAR:

De Aza: 2.3, -0.3

Granderson: 3.0, 1.1.

 

Yes, Granderson has much better years prior to the last 2 and he outperformed De Aza last year during his time on the field. However, over the last 2 years, the difference has been at best narrow. He's not going to be a defensive upgrade and he's going to be a slight downgrade on the basepaths.

 

Only saying this since it seems some people think letting De Aza go for very little or nothing is a good idea. The player you'd get by signing Granderson stands a good chance of being comparable to De Aza for the next couple years. That's not a bad thing, that's more than a $10 million player, but that is why you have to get fair value for ADA.

 

From a marketing perspective, it doesn't hurt. Hometown boy comes home to play.

 

f*** that. If Granderson is the right player for the team on the field, then great, sign him up. But I'm sure the Sox pay a lot of money to people in a marketing department and Rick Hahn isn't of of them.

One thing we do need is competitive veteran leadership. Granderson brings with him a few intangibles that might outweigh his horrid splits. I'd still prefer jacoby because 1) he's a more balanced hitter 2) he really makes us solid defensively, taking tons of pressure off Tank and AG. I think it makes more sense. I'm torn.

f*** that. If Granderson is the right player for the team on the field, then great, sign him up. But I'm sure the Sox pay a lot of money to people in a marketing department and Rick Hahn isn't of of them.

 

I'm saying if Player A and B are identical in every way but Player A is from the area and Player B is from Mississippi, signing Player A makes more sense.

How much of that is in line with league wide drops in offensive production? I'm not an advocate of signing him. Just sayin...

 

OPS+ is also on a pretty marked decline 135 in 2008 to 115 in 2013, even throwing out the 2012 87 as an injury thing.

Except he didn't bounce back to his career norms. If you throw out 2012 as an aberration, you still have 4 straight years of OPS drops since his career high of 2008. WAR and oWar have also been on a pretty steady decline. dWar was 0.1 from a career low. BA, SLG, OPB are also on a steady decline. No reason to think these trends won't continue, and probably they will accelerate.

 

How much of that is in line with league wide drops in offensive production? I'm not an advocate of signing him. Just sayin...

 

Excellent point by TaylorStSox, this is EXACTLY why you look at wRC+, which is league adjusted every year. McCann's career wRC+ is 117. His 2013 wRC+ is 122, and that's despite a BABIP 32 points below his career average. This is definitely not a sign of decline.

Edited October 7, 201312 yr by Eminor3rd

OPS+ is also on a pretty marked decline 135 in 2008 to 115 in 2013, even throwing out the 2012 87 as an injury thing.

 

OPS is a much inferior statistic to RC, which precisely weighs on-base skills and slugging.

The article says the Sox are "downsizing."

Makes perfect sense to me. I'm not going to get my hopes up of signing anybody decent. More like Keppinger signings. Thanks Adam Dunn for ruining everything in terms of free agency for the Sox in the future. Good luck, White Sox, if you downsize. It will take years and years to rebuild the pathetic farm system. We can all get used to crowds of 15,000 to 25,000 with 25,000 being a huge crowd on the south side.

One thing worth pointing out:

 

fWAR:

Alejandro De Aza, 2012 and 2013: 2.7 and 2.2

Curtis Granderson, same years: 2.3 and 1.4 (Granderson had 245 PA's in 2013 if you'd like to project to a full season).

 

bWAR:

De Aza: 2.3, -0.3

Granderson: 3.0, 1.1.

 

Yes, Granderson has much better years prior to the last 2 and he outperformed De Aza last year during his time on the field. However, over the last 2 years, the difference has been at best narrow. He's not going to be a defensive upgrade and he's going to be a slight downgrade on the basepaths.

 

Only saying this since it seems some people think letting De Aza go for very little or nothing is a good idea. The player you'd get by signing Granderson stands a good chance of being comparable to De Aza for the next couple years. That's not a bad thing, that's more than a $10 million player, but that is why you have to get fair value for ADA.

 

Great post. Best case (Granderson bounces back from injury and doesn't continue his decline), you're getting a small upgrade from De Aza. It isn't quite marginal, but it would be a poor allocation of a bunch of money. We have much bigger holes to fill.

Does anyone think we might target Ethier from the Dodgers. I'd rather have him than Granderson.

Does anyone think we might target Ethier from the Dodgers. I'd rather have him than Granderson.

 

I really don't think we need a right fielder.

Curtis Granderson... For me to poop on.

They aren't going after Granderson if he is $15 million a year. If he's significantly cheaper it makes sense. I actually know one of Curtis" best friends from UIC. I know he would love to play for the White Sox.

One thing we do need is competitive veteran leadership. Granderson brings with him a few intangibles that might outweigh his horrid splits. I'd still prefer jacoby because 1) he's a more balanced hitter 2) he really makes us solid defensively, taking tons of pressure off Tank and AG. I think it makes more sense. I'm torn.

 

What part of his splits are horrid?

 

2010-2012

 

OPS vs RHP- .870

OPS vs LHP- .791

 

 

 

Home OPS- .882

Away- .807

 

 

Pre All star- .850

post all star- .836

 

 

 

None on- .855

Runners on- .831

 

Sure there's a big difference in a lot of those splits but considering the worse part of his splits are still pretty damn good I wouldn't call it horrid.

Edited October 7, 201312 yr by scs787

I really don't think we need a right fielder.

I could see a way where it's sensible if they really were intending to move Garcia to CF full-time, but so far they haven't convinced me they're ready to do that move (I'd have had him playing CF full time in September, for example).

 

But even with that said, I wouldn't take Ethier's contract on if he were put on irrevocable waivers. 4 years, $70 million remaining for a 31 year old who, again, has put up WAR numbers comparable to De Aza over the last couple seasons. They'd have to pay something like $30 million for me to be interested in taking the remainder on and that's with no real talent going back. They have no reason to do that.

If he's significantly cheaper it makes sense.

Retract poop, if this is the case.

 

They aren't going after Granderson if he is $15 million a year. If he's significantly cheaper it makes sense. I actually know one of Curtis" best friends from UIC. I know he would love to play for the White Sox.

 

I think this is a big thing too. If he is willing, he may be able to give a true hometown discount.

 

I truly think he'll end up in Chicago and that it will be at a reasonable price.

I really don't think we need a right fielder.

 

He could play left and move Tank to 1B/DH.

Or Garcia to CF if it's thought he'd be better there than De Aza.

 

Dodgers obviously have to unload him or Crawford.

 

He could play left and move Tank to 1B/DH.

Or Garcia to CF if it's thought he'd be better there than De Aza.

 

Dodgers obviously have to unload him or Crawford.

 

Yeah, we could find a way to make it work, but the upgrade of Grand/Ethier from De Aza/Viciedo is much less than FLowers/Phegley to McCann, for example. I just mean that a corner OF is not our biggest problem.

Yeah, we could find a way to make it work, but the upgrade of Grand/Ethier from De Aza/Viciedo is much less than FLowers/Phegley to McCann, for example. I just mean that a corner OF is not our biggest problem.

 

Given that Hahn was reportedly asking for Makiel Franco at the deadline for De Aza, I think he is aware of his potential value to other teams as well.

 

I'm not certain what we'll see yet. Frankly, as was mentioned previously, we could see the Sox bring AJ back again.

But even with that said, I wouldn't take Ethier's contract on if he were put on irrevocable waivers. 4 years, $70 million remaining for a 31 year old who, again, has put up WAR numbers comparable to De Aza over the last couple seasons. They'd have to pay something like $30 million for me to be interested in taking the remainder on and that's with no real talent going back. They have no reason to do that.

 

Right, they'd have to eat plenty of salary. Dodgers almost certainly will trade an outfielder not named Puig, and Ethier seems the most likely. As a player pretty comparable to Granderson, I wondered if he could be had for cheaper.

 

Given that Hahn was reportedly asking for Makiel Franco at the deadline for De Aza, I think he is aware of his potential value to other teams as well.

 

I'm not certain what we'll see yet. Frankly, as was mentioned previously, we could see the Sox bring AJ back again.

 

He WOULD want Maikel Franco, lol. What the **** is up this organization's obsession with guys that rip up the minors by swinging at everything and destroy inferior pitching?

Kemp and Kipnis, lol...we're taking the wrong hometown player.

 

In all seriousness, we should sign the scout who picked up Wacha for $2 million over 3 years.

 

 

 

No to Garcia in CF.

No to Granderson because you have to fear the power numbers he put up in Yankee Stadium in a protected line-up just won't stand up...unless he's getting Jermaine Dye's contract equivalent coming into 2005. You also have to be concerned about wear and tear from his playing CF for most of his career, all the steals, athletic players are breaking down now in early 30's rather than mid 30's now.

Yes to McCann but only at the right price, and it's admittedly much more important to sign a catcher than an outfielder.

 

If you're going to spend money on guys like Granderson, spend half the price and find players who will make our defense twice as good, not our offense incrementally better.

 

I'd actually rather go with the upside of Jose Tabata for Alexei Ramirez...or even Travis Snider, than Granderson.

Edited October 7, 201312 yr by caulfield12

He WOULD want Maikel Franco, lol. What the **** is up this organization's obsession with guys that rip up the minors by swinging at everything and destroy inferior pitching?

 

 

Is that KW or Hahn?