cabiness42 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 There is a HUGE difference between a .305 OBP and a .340 OBP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:33 PM) There is a HUGE difference between a .305 OBP and a .340 OBP. I think you have to take the situations into consideration also. Freese was in a playoff race with a great team around him. Gillaspie was out of the playoff race by August and had nobody around him. It was also his first full year in the MLB. If I had to pick who I wanted next year and the next 3+ I would pick Gillaspie. And Freese is injury prone and has had bad ankles for all of his playing career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:53 PM) They must mean depth as in minor league OF help. Their OF is already full and their #1 prospect is waiting in the wings. Not necessarily....with Beltran presumably walking I'm not sure they have a ton of depth in their OF. It will come down to what they do with Craig/Adams. I'm not so sure Adams is going to play OF for them. Especially since he's already developed a nagging foot injury. Also, Jon Jay is kind of a butcher in CF so a late inning defensive replacement guy who can hit a little could help them a lot. Not saying they have a huge need or anything, but its plausible. I got a good chuckle out of whoever said Gillaspie is better than Freese by the way. Good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:33 PM) There is a HUGE difference between a .305 OBP and a .340 OBP. Yep. Getting on base one more time per 30 plate appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:42 PM) Yep. Getting on base one more time per 30 plate appearances. Over 600 plate appearances, it's 21 more times on base. That means you are looking at 21 more times that he has extended an inning, which results in pitchers getting that much more tired and the team scoring more runs. I don't want the Sox to acquire Freese, but he's a much better overall player than Conor Gillaspie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Yep. Getting on base one more time per 30 plate appearances. You're phrasing that in a way that attempts to minimalize the impact, but that's still pretty significant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:30 PM) Freese 30 years old 9 HR 60 RBI .262 AVG .340 OBP 462 ABs Right Handed Gillaspie- 26 years old 13 HR 40 RBI .245 AVG .305 OBP 452 PA Left Handed And it was Gillaspie's first full year and with a horrible cast around him that never got on base. Freese was on a team that made the World Series and had a bunch of guys in front of him that got on base. I will take Gillaspie every day Well what about the year before when he did this? 20 HR 79 RBI .297 AVG .372 OBP 567 ABs you know, when he was relatively healthy. Last year was his worst year in the majors, and he missed 24 games due to injuries, and still was just as good as Conor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:54 PM) Well what about the year before when he did this? 20 HR 79 RBI .297 AVG .372 OBP 567 ABs you know, when he was relatively healthy. Last year was his worst year in the majors, and he missed 24 games due to injuries, and still was just as good as Conor Shhhh don't bring things like facts and com mon sense into this argument. Not allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I just want to state that I am not really all for bringing in Freese, but I do feel like (if healthy) he is way better than Conor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:50 PM) Over 600 plate appearances, it's 21 more times on base. That means you are looking at 21 more times that he has extended an inning, which results in pitchers getting that much more tired and the team scoring more runs. I don't want the Sox to acquire Freese, but he's a much better overall player than Conor Gillaspie. If you had a team doing that, it would mean 1+ additional base runners in each game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:30 PM) Freese 30 years old 9 HR 60 RBI .262 AVG .340 OBP 462 ABs Right Handed Gillaspie- 26 years old 13 HR 40 RBI .245 AVG .305 OBP 452 PA Left Handed And it was Gillaspie's first full year and with a horrible cast around him that never got on base. Freese was on a team that made the World Series and had a bunch of guys in front of him that got on base. I will take Gillaspie every day Career WAR Gillaspie: 0.4 Freese: 8.2 WAR per 500PA Gillaspie: 0.4 Freese: 2.3 2014 Steamer projected WAR Gillaspie: 1.3 Freese: 2.3 Career UZR/150 Gillaspie: -5.2 Freese: -4.8 Career wRC+ Gillaspie: 83 Freese: 119 2014 Steamer projected wRC+ Gillaspie: 95 Freese: 118 Hmmm. Wait, I found something! 2013 Ultimate baserunning Gillaspie: -0.1 Freese: -1.9 Help me, I'm struggling here. Is the argument that Gillaspie is better something like "Freese's injury-plagued down year in 2013 makes me think that his entire career precedent is lost now that he is age 30"? Because where I'm coming from, it looks like they are similar defenders, similar baserunners, but Freese is a SUBSTANTIALLY better hitter -- like several standard deviations better. Edited November 21, 2013 by Eminor3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) There's something bout that Conor Gillaspie. Not predicting a breakout (due to age) but he doesnt have to make too big a leap to be worthwhile. Edited November 21, 2013 by Jose Paniagua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:50 PM) You're phrasing that in a way that attempts to minimalize the impact, but that's still pretty significant. I know it is, but it has to be someone who plays a lot for it to be much of a difference if the other parts of their games are similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:07 PM) There's something bout that Conor Gillaspie. Not predicting a breakout (due to age) but he doesnt have to make too big a leap to be worthwhile. I like him for some reason, too. I'm not saying we should get Freese, just that it's silly to say that Conor is better. Because as of right now, he just absolutely isn't. But he is younger and cheaper and -- most importantly -- already on our team, so I agree he's the better fit for us right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:07 PM) There's something bout that Conor Gillaspie. Not predicting a breakout (due to age) but he doesnt have to make too big a leap to be worthwhile. The one thing to really be concerned about was how bad he got defensively as the year went on. By the end of the season, he was awful. Edited November 21, 2013 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:09 PM) The one thing to really be concerned about was how bad he got defensively as the year went on. By the end of the season, he was awful. Yeah, and what makes that even scarier is the fact that he came into the season with a rep as a bad defender. We were all pleasantly surprised with his spring and first month or so, thinking he turned a corner -- but that seems like it might have been small sample noise now that we've seen what we can assume to be a regression given his rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:02 PM) Career WAR Gillaspie: 0.4 Freese: 8.2 WAR per 500PA Gillaspie: 0.4 Freese: 2.3 2014 Steamer projected WAR Gillaspie: 1.3 Freese: 2.3 Career UZR/150 Gillaspie: -5.2 Freese: -4.8 Career wRC+ Gillaspie: 83 Freese: 119 2014 Steamer projected wRC+ Gillaspie: 95 Freese: 118 Hmmm. Wait, I found something! 2013 Ultimate baserunning Gillaspie: -0.1 Freese: -1.9 Help me, I'm struggling here. Is the argument that Gillaspie is better something like "Freese's injury-plagued down year in 2013 makes me think that his entire career precedent is lost now that he is age 30"? Because where I'm coming from, it looks like they are similar defenders, similar baserunners, but Freese is a SUBSTANTIALLY better hitter -- like several standard deviations better. I don't give 2 s***s about all those stupid acronym stats. I like Gillaspie more then Freese. Freese had one decent year (how many players have had similar years once or twice and sucked the rest of their career) and is full of injuries, 30 years old and couldn't even hit 10 home runs at 3B last year.. Tons of people here always talk about 3B, 1B, and corner outfielders must be able to produce the power numbers (not saying you are one of them) and Freese isn't that. He isn't that good of a player, he is average at best and Gillaspie has a CHANCE to be an above average player if he progresses. At age 30 Freese will likely just regress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:34 PM) I don't give 2 s***s about all those stupid acronym stats. I like Gillaspie more then Freese. Ok, that's fine -- just so we all know it has nothing to do with who the better player is, lol. Gillaspie may have more upside, but right now, he is absolutely NOT a better player. And Gillaspie is NOT a better homerun hitter. You can cherry pick Freese's worst, injury-plagued year if you want, but you're ignoring the rest of his entire career, including his last healthy year, just one season ago, when he hit 20 homers. Freese has more power than Gillaspie. There is no information at all to suggest otherwise, even scouting reports on Gillaspie have ALWAYS questioned his power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Good Lord -- they both suck. Let's move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:40 PM) Ok, that's fine -- just so we all know it has nothing to do with who the better player is, lol. Gillaspie may have more upside, but right now, he is absolutely NOT a better player. And Gillaspie is NOT a better homerun hitter. You can cherry pick Freese's worst, injury-plagued year if you want, but you're ignoring the rest of his entire career, including his last healthy year, just one season ago, when he hit 20 homers. Freese has more power than Gillaspie. There is no information at all to suggest otherwise, even scouting reports on Gillaspie have ALWAYS questioned his power. Freese has played 2 full seasons, not like he has 6 or 7 to go off of. One pretty good year and one bad. Like I said he has an injury filled past too so you can't really say "injury-plagued year." He will always have some injuries going on. He still managed to play 138 games this year, only 6 more then the previous year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 04:49 PM) Freese has played 2 full seasons, not like he has 6 or 7 to go off of. One pretty good year and one bad. Like I said he has an injury filled past too so you can't really say "injury-plagued year." He will always have some injuries going on. He still managed to play 138 games this year, only 6 more then the previous year. 2 full seasons for a guy described as nearly 30 doesn't sound positive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:49 PM) Freese has played 2 full seasons, not like he has 6 or 7 to go off of. One pretty good year and one bad. Like I said he has an injury filled past too so you can't really say "injury-plagued year." He will always have some injuries going on. He still managed to play 138 games this year, only 6 more then the previous year. Ok, well you are using the "He is 30 and more likely to regress" reasoning for Freese. Thats fine, but what about "Conor Gillaspie had his first season in the bigs at 26, so this is probably the best he is ever going to be"? Usually players that couldnt get out of the minors until that age end up being nothing more than AAAA players. Freese has demonstrated that he can produce at the big league level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:49 PM) Freese has played 2 full seasons, not like he has 6 or 7 to go off of. One pretty good year and one bad. Like I said he has an injury filled past too so you can't really say "injury-plagued year." He will always have some injuries going on. He still managed to play 138 games this year, only 6 more then the previous year. Nobody wants David Freese. I don't think it's far fetched to say that most people here prefer Gillaspie to Freese. Given the state of the Sox, I'd much, much rather have Conor Gillaspie than David Freese. Freese is still a better baseball player than Conor Gillaspie. The numbers have all been laid out for you. It really couldn't be any clearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 04:00 PM) Nobody wants David Freese. I don't think it's far fetched to say that most people here prefer Gillaspie to Freese. Given the state of the Sox, I'd much, much rather have Conor Gillaspie than David Freese. Freese is still a better baseball player than Conor Gillaspie. The numbers have all been laid out for you. It really couldn't be any clearer. Yes, this exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 04:00 PM) Nobody wants David Freese. I don't think it's far fetched to say that most people here prefer Gillaspie to Freese. Given the state of the Sox, I'd much, much rather have Conor Gillaspie than David Freese. Freese is still a better baseball player than Conor Gillaspie. The numbers have all been laid out for you. It really couldn't be any clearer. Agree, Freese does nothing for this team. He is not the missing piece of the puzzle and is arb eligible. Gillaspie is serviceable until a long term solution can be found. Not sure what the Cards have that match up with the Sox needs. The Sox need long term solutions at CF and 3B, plus to back fill any positions they trade in the off season (SS). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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