The Ultimate Champion Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 02:31 PM) That isn't completely true. There is nothing to stop Dunn from having a bounce back spring and finding the one team who will give up something for him. If not, you are at the same place you started. Adam Dunn on this roster doesn't hurt the Sox one iota. The guys we are talking about giving plate appearances to are all worse than Adam Dunn, and won't be any real part of any good future White Sox teams. Connor Gillaspie has potential 4-5 year value just as-is, as a bench player, provided he can make some adjustments. DeAza has the potential to bring back something in trade. Viciedo has the potential to become an above-average hitter and long-term DH. Leury/Elmore/Danks/whoever have the potential to also become multi-year players in other roles. Dunn gets you what exactly? Nothing. Nobody wants to give up quality prospects anymore and Dunn can't even fit on like 25 of the 30 teams out there as it is. It's foolish to hang onto this guy, but whatever, I'm done with this thread. The Sox are morons hanging onto this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 02:38 PM) Connor Gillaspie has potential 4-5 year value just as-is, as a bench player, provided he can make some adjustments. DeAza has the potential to bring back something in trade. Viciedo has the potential to become an above-average hitter and long-term DH. Leury/Elmore/Danks/whoever have the potential to also become multi-year players in other roles. Dunn gets you what exactly? Nothing. Nobody wants to give up quality prospects anymore and Dunn can't even fit on like 25 of the 30 teams out there as it is. It's foolish to hang onto this guy, but whatever, I'm done with this thread. The Sox are morons hanging onto this guy. De Aza and Viciedo are not being blocked by Adam Dunn. The rest of that list is crap. They are guys that are fully replaceable by millions of other minor league players. And anything you can potentially get for Adam Dunn later on, is better than the nothing you would get for him today. Even if it is saving a few million dollars, or getting a C level prospect. Releasing him gets you absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 02:27 PM) Adam Dunn is the junked car sitting in your front lawn. It doesn't matter that you paid $6,000 for it on Craigslist. It doesn't matter that it *should* have run like this or that, or that it "shouldn't* have had this or that problem. The point is that your yard is a s*** hole, and there's a guy out there who will happily come tow it away for you and give you whatever it's junked value is. You already lost your money, that's gone, and nobody is ever going to give you value back beyond the scrap amount that it's worth. So you have a choice, either deal with your mistake and move forward or sit there and hope someone will pay you an amount that the market isn't going to bare. If you have to eat $14M and take back nothing then that $1M saved is $1M more you can devote to another area or simply hang on to. If you have to eat all the cash then you still end up with 500-600 extra PA over a season to work with. Still a bonus, and still more than you had before. The problem is that your junked Adam Dunn car is still the best way you currently have to get to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) BTW we're not contending next year. Whatever offensive improvement Dunn may provide of any other potential core piece is absolutely irrelevant and only further removes us from the #1 pick. We're not nearly close enough for such a marginal increase to push us over the top and into contention. That logic works for us, but it doesn't work at all for the casual fanbase and it doesn't work at all for the players. Dunn blocks no one important and makes the 2014 team more competitive. And you've already paid for him, like you said. The frustration of not having a prayer to win on any given night is poison for young players over the course of six excruciating months. And when August rolls around, the fanbase will be watching House of Payne instead. The Astros are proving right now that rock bottom hurts. I've become a believer that throwing some money at keeping your head above water during a transition makes sense so long as it doesn't get in the way of the process. Dunn does not get in the way in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 02:19 PM) Leury/Elmore/Danks/? That goes to the "not worth a s***" part. Why would anyone waste time caring if Leury Garcia was on a major league roster? So we can win 79 games instead of 78 this year? Garcia is 21 years old, and a plus defender, plus runner, and can play multiple positions. He's hardly a "not worth a ...." player. Actually, keeping Dunn increases the likelihood that L Garcia sticks as we'll need defensive flexibility on the bench. But a year in AAA for L Garcia would be fine as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 02:42 PM) The problem is that your junked Adam Dunn car is still the best way you currently have to get to work. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 02:27 PM) Adam Dunn is the junked car sitting in your front lawn. It doesn't matter that you paid $6,000 for it on Craigslist. It doesn't matter that it *should* have run like this or that, or that it "shouldn't* have had this or that problem. The point is that your yard is a s*** hole, and there's a guy out there who will happily come tow it away for you and give you whatever it's junked value is. And with a little tuning...that junk car will out-muscle most of the cars in your garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 02:54 PM) Garcia is 21 years old, and a plus defender, plus runner, and can play multiple positions. He's hardly a "not worth a ...." player. Actually, keeping Dunn increases the likelihood that L Garcia sticks as we'll need defensive flexibility on the bench. But a year in AAA for L Garcia would be fine as well. At absolute best, he is a 24th/25th man. That is his top. The kid is never going to hit enough to play everyday. Guys like that are a dime a dozen around baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Oh boy, here we go again. If you want to put Dunn on waivers to see if a team claims him and his salary like Toronto did with Rios, I can see that. If you find a team willing to trade a prospect for Dunn, I can see that. If you hope Dunn hits well enough to be traded come June/July, I can see that. If you want to offer a bit of money in a trade for another teams prospect, I can see that. What I can't see is paying Dunn's entire salary while he plays for another team. This makes zero sense whatsoever. If he was blocking a young baseball mashing prospect that was destined for 1B/DH then maybe I could see that but its not the case. We've already put up with Dunn for 3 of the 4 years on his contract so I think if we have to we can put up with one more season. With the current state of the Sox, there are more important issues than Adam Dunn. Just to offer another point of view here. It wouldn't surprise me if Dunn turned out to be the classic case of a slugger that hit well in the last year of his contract before hitting free agency. Who knows, maybe the Sox contend long enough to put more butts in the seats because of it. Edited January 30, 2014 by StRoostifer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 03:57 PM) At absolute best, he is a 24th/25th man. That is his top. The kid is never going to hit enough to play everyday. Guys like that are a dime a dozen around baseball. With how the SS position has evolved, I find this to be very much 2000-vintage thinking. Right now, if you're tolerable with the bat but great with the glove you're a $50 million/5 year contract level shortstop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 03:52 PM) With how the SS position has evolved, I find this to be very much 2000-vintage thinking. Right now, if you're tolerable with the bat but great with the glove you're a $50 million/5 year contract level shortstop. Perfect example here is Elvis Andrus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 09:52 PM) With how the SS position has evolved, I find this to be very much 2000-vintage thinking. Right now, if you're tolerable with the bat but great with the glove you're a $50 million/5 year contract level shortstop. Tolerable is the key word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Rosenbloom is such a garbage writer. Trash article again, regardless of how you feel about Dunn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 05:04 PM) Tolerable is the key word. And given that he's a 22 year old right now, you simply aren't going to convince me that it's impossible for him to ever become tolerable with the bat. He is just that young...he might need years of work, he might need the right coach, but esp. given his speed (which could give him the ability to do a lot of successful slap hitting), it's at least plausible he could turn into a really valuable player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 03:59 PM) Perfect example here is Elvis Andrus. That's exactly the name that came to mind, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Just remember that as "meh" of a hitter as Andrus is, Leury pretty much hasn't even matched Andrus's MLB production in the minors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 04:36 PM) Just remember that as "meh" of a hitter as Andrus is, Leury pretty much hasn't even matched Andrus's MLB production in the minors Not even close. Plus his defense is no where near that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 03:45 PM) Oh boy, here we go again. If you want to put Dunn on waivers to see if a team claims him and his salary like Toronto did with Rios, I can see that. If you find a team willing to trade a prospect for Dunn, I can see that. If you hope Dunn hits well enough to be traded come June/July, I can see that. If you want to offer a bit of money in a trade for another teams prospect, I can see that. What I can't see is paying Dunn's entire salary while he plays for another team. This makes zero sense whatsoever. If he was blocking a young baseball mashing prospect that was destined for 1B/DH then maybe I could see that but its not the case. We've already put up with Dunn for 3 of the 4 years on his contract so I think if we have to we can put up with one more season. With the current state of the Sox, there are more important issues than Adam Dunn. Just to offer another point of view here. It wouldn't surprise me if Dunn turned out to be the classic case of a slugger that hit well in the last year of his contract before hitting free agency. Who knows, maybe the Sox contend long enough to put more butts in the seats because of it. I am hoping that the Sox make him a QO at the end of the year and he declines. The Sox get a solid prospect for him and dont have a power vaccum from the LH side of the plate this year. I understand that the scenario is unlikely, but its probably not impossible that Dunn will be looking for multiple years instead of one. I could see a team give him a 3/$16-18M next winter. The Twins for instance are going to be starved for power, have a hole at DH and their 1st pick will (most likely) be protected. Anyway, that is what I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 05:10 PM) I am hoping that the Sox make him a QO at the end of the year and he declines. The Sox get a solid prospect for him and dont have a power vaccum from the LH side of the plate this year. I understand that the scenario is unlikely, but its probably not impossible that Dunn will be looking for multiple years instead of one. I could see a team give him a 3/$16-18M next winter. The Twins for instance are going to be starved for power, have a hole at DH and their 1st pick will (most likely) be protected. Anyway, that is what I hope. There is about a 0.1% chance we offer Dunn a QO next year and a 99.9% chance he'd accept it if we did. Come on man, you throw out a 3 year, $16/$18M deal when a QO would practically be worth that much alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian310 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 1. Dunn will not be offered a qualifying offer 2. If he was offered one, he'd accept in s heartbeat 3. If he declined, no one would even sign him if he was tied to a draft pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 02:47 PM) That logic works for us, but it doesn't work at all for the casual fanbase and it doesn't work at all for the players. Dunn blocks no one important and makes the 2014 team more competitive. And you've already paid for him, like you said. The frustration of not having a prayer to win on any given night is poison for young players over the course of six excruciating months. And when August rolls around, the fanbase will be watching House of Payne instead. The Astros are proving right now that rock bottom hurts. I've become a believer that throwing some money at keeping your head above water during a transition makes sense so long as it doesn't get in the way of the process. Dunn does not get in the way in 2014. The fans do not want Dunn on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) It must be weird to be a major leaguer like Dunn and constantly hear/read how worthless you are. I mean when's the last time anybody had a positive word to say about Adam Dunn's ability. It's usually mocking the 1-for-40 he's in or the insane amount of strikeouts he's putting up in a week. Oh well, he gets paid zillions of dollars despite hearing how he's not nearly good enough. Most working stiffs make about $30,000 a year to hear the same on a daily basis from their clueless superiors. I think the only good things said about him were during the inevitable preseason stories about how much weight he's lost and that one stretch of 7 days where he allegedly had decided to start going the opposite way to thwart the shift. Edited January 30, 2014 by greg775 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 05:18 PM) There is about a 0.1% chance we offer Dunn a QO next year and a 99.9% chance he'd accept it if we did. Come on man, you throw out a 3 year, $16/$18M deal when a QO would practically be worth that much alone. Mark Reynolds just signed a minor league deal that is worth up to $2 million if he makes the Brewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 05:53 PM) The fans do not want Dunn on the team. Any organization that listens to its fans on personnel is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 05:53 PM) The fans do not want Dunn on the team. The fans want wins. They will react more negatively to a s***tier record without Dunn than they will react to a better record with Dunn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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