A part of the article from whitesox.com

 

After the game, won by Eric Surkamp (1-0) and saved by Jake Petricka (eighth), Noesi sported a Scott Carroll-owned Doodle Hat with the word "Revenge" and his name written on it. It was the same hat he wore last Monday after beating Texas, another team that had given up on him this year. That night also happened to mark the last White Sox win.

 

"Sometimes when you don't believe in somebody, sometimes they need to show me that I can do it, that I can believe in something," Noesi said. "When I got here, [White Sox pitching coach Don] Cooper told me a lot of things, we talked. That's why I'm getting better, because he told me that I can do it."

 

Abreu

Alexi

Conor

HecNo

Noesi with the White Sox 6-7 4.15 ERA, 115IP, 43BB, 82Ks, Opponents BA .242, and a WHIP of 1.36

Noesi with the White Sox 6-7 4.15 ERA, 115IP, 43BB, 82Ks, Opponents BA .242, and a WHIP of 1.36

With a 4.69 fip & 4.47xfip for scrap heap pick up not bad at all, he could conceivably be a 1-1.5WAR pitcher next season over 30 starts. For league minimum, thats a great job by Hahn finding a serviceable 5th starter when people like Jeremy Guthrie are making over 8M for similar production.

With a 4.69 fip & 4.47xfip for scrap heap pick up not bad at all, he could conceivably be a 1-1.5WAR pitcher next season over 30 starts. For league minimum, thats a great job by Hahn finding a serviceable 5th starter when people like John Danks are making over 14M for similar production.

 

Fixed it for you.

Fixed it for you.

It's amazing how much you hate a guy for getting hurt.

With a 4.69 fip & 4.47xfip for scrap heap pick up not bad at all, he could conceivably be a 1-1.5WAR pitcher next season over 30 starts. For league minimum, thats a great job by Hahn finding a serviceable 5th starter when people like Jeremy Guthrie are making over 8M for similar production.

 

 

That's essentially what a lot of people were dreaming (in hindsight) that Paulino would put up.

Danks is quite a bit worse than Noesi.

With a 4.69 fip & 4.47xfip for scrap heap pick up not bad at all, he could conceivably be a 1-1.5WAR pitcher next season over 30 starts. For league minimum, thats a great job by Hahn finding a serviceable 5th starter when people like Jeremy Guthrie are making over 8M for similar production.

Just to note again, some of those numbers are related to him not being stretched out when he got to the White Sox and the Sox having to leave him in to get shelled in order to stretch his arm out for starting. Factoring that in his real ERA might well be somewhere closer to 4 and his FIP would probably drop as well.

It's amazing how much you hate a guy for getting hurt.

 

I don't hate him; I hate his deal. I hated it at the time too. He never should have been a "core" piece of our future, even when he was young. Poor player evaluation by KW and friends, which is the main reason we are where we are in terms of our organizational talent pool.

 

Thank God for the Hahn-led front office.

I don't hate him; I hate his deal. I hated it at the time too. He never should have been a "core" piece of our future, even when he was young. Poor player evaluation by KW and friends, which is the main reason we are where we are in terms of our organizational talent pool.

 

Thank God for the Hahn-led front office.

 

That isn't even close to true. The deal was universally praised as an under market deal for a guy of Danks then-caliber.

That isn't even close to true. The deal was universally praised as an under market deal for a guy of Danks then-caliber.

 

I don't doubt the experts liked it; if they did, then they were wrong too.

 

Giving a long-term contract to a guy with mediocre control and average velocity (91-92) is stupid. Now we're paying the price.

Edited August 11, 201411 yr by Andy the Clown

That isn't even close to true. The deal was universally praised as an under market deal for a guy of Danks then-caliber.

 

Indeed.

 

According to fangraphs(speaking your language here clown), from 2008-2011 Danks was worth $66.5M or $16.625M a year. So according to your beloved fangraphs the Danks deal was indeed just that, a deal.

 

 

I don't doubt the experts liked it; if they did, then they were wrong too.

 

Giving a long-term contract to a guy with mediocre control and average velocity (91-92) is stupid. Now we're paying the price.

 

Except that isn't actually true either.

I don't doubt the experts liked it; if they did, then they were wrong too.

 

Giving a long-term contract to a guy with mediocre control and average velocity (91-92) is stupid. Now we're paying the price.

 

I didn't like it. I thought he was and is still over rated. Before they signed him you have to ask who you gonna replace him with? Medicore and below mediocre can have a high price tag with MLB pitchers. The could have done worse in the FA market.

 

I'm hoping next season we will have a career year. I think he has that left in him.

 

Except that isn't actually true either.

 

Look up his walk rates and velocity during his peak years. Where did I lie?

I don't hate him; I hate his deal. I hated it at the time too. He never should have been a "core" piece of our future, even when he was young. Poor player evaluation by KW and friends, which is the main reason we are where we are in terms of our organizational talent pool.

 

Thank God for the Hahn-led front office.

 

It's the same front office. KW probably makes all the same deals. What happened is Peavy sucked, Danks got hurt, and Adam Dunn personally destroyed a legitimate playoff window. Now the FO is cleaning up the mess they made. The change in figurehead (KW to RH) was to shut up and sate people like yourself who couldn't see that.

Look up his walk rates and velocity during his peak years. Where did I lie?

 

Sooo, explain why fangraphs had him worth 17M the year before his injury and 500K this year? He also had the 18th highest WAR that year....Lets not act like he wasn't a damn fine pitcher before the injury.

Sooo, explain why fangraphs had him worth 17M the year before his injury and 500K this year? He also had the 18th highest WAR that year....Lets not act like he wasn't a damn fine pitcher before the injury.

 

He and Floyd were really good in 2008, pretty good (at least a 2/3 level starter) in 2009 and 2010 and then downhill from that point.

 

But none of that has anything to do with the $35+ million pitcher we have on our roster now.

 

It's very obvious he's having a hard time keeping the ball down, there's not enough differential on his pitch speeds, and his location/control has been suspect...isn't he leading the AL in homers allowed?

 

 

Sometimes I also think the blackout/playoff game made him "an ace" to the fanbase (since we have so few playoff appearances)...and memories of that start lingered far longer than Nick Blackburn.

Edited August 11, 201411 yr by caulfield12

Look up his walk rates and velocity during his peak years. Where did I lie?

Velocity is a really poor way to evaluate a pitcher. In fact, the more we find out about the incidence of TJ surgery the worse it becomes. The more you try to over throw the more likely you are to have surgery.

 

The deal was a good one when he was healthy. It's a bad contract now but not at the time.

He and Floyd were really good in 2008, pretty good (at least a 2/3 level starter) in 2009 and 2010 and then downhill from that point.

 

But none of that has anything to do with the $35+ million pitcher we have on our roster now.

 

It's very obvious he's having a hard time keeping the ball down, there's not enough differential on his pitch speeds, and his location/control has been suspect...isn't he leading the AL in homers allowed?

 

Sometimes I also think the blackout/playoff game made him "an ace" to the fanbase (since we have so few playoff appearances)...and memories of that start lingered far longer than Nick Blackburn.

I think much of that is due to hitting an innings limit. He currently is pitching more than he has in the last three years. He was pretty good early but has hit a wall. Hopefully as he adds the enducrance he will be able to pitch deeper into the season next year.

I think much of that is due to hitting an innings limit. He currently is pitching more than he has in the last three years. He was pretty good early but has hit a wall. Hopefully as he adds the enducrance he will be able to pitch deeper into the season next year.

 

Every once in a while, he will rare back and get a 90 or 91 on the gun.

 

Not sure if he's just trying to quiet down the critics/whispers...or what the reason, as he's usually 86-89 these days. It's hard to say what effect the trade rumors have had on him, but surely it hasn't been helpful, either.

Every once in a while, he will rare back and get a 90 or 91 on the gun.

 

Not sure if he's just trying to quiet down the critics/whispers...or what the reason, as he's usually 86-89 these days. It's hard to say what effect the trade rumors have had on him, but surely it hasn't been helpful, either.

It's not so much velocity as it is control. When your legs start to go the pitches will go up as well. He is getting under too many pitches which is why he has recently had the problem with too many pitches being up.

He and Floyd were really good in 2008, pretty good (at least a 2/3 level starter) in 2009 and 2010 and then downhill from that point.

 

But none of that has anything to do with the $35+ million pitcher we have on our roster now.

 

It's very obvious he's having a hard time keeping the ball down, there's not enough differential on his pitch speeds, and his location/control has been suspect...isn't he leading the AL in homers allowed?

 

 

Sometimes I also think the blackout/playoff game made him "an ace" to the fanbase (since we have so few playoff appearances)...and memories of that start lingered far longer than Nick Blackburn.

 

Sure it does to the conversation going on right now. Andy is saying he hated the deal when it happened and pretty much saying he wasn't worth it. I was simply pointing out that he was indeed worth it.

 

From 2008 to 2011 John had a 15.3 WAR, which is 16th most among SPs.

It's the same front office. KW probably makes all the same deals. What happened is Peavy sucked, Danks got hurt, and Adam Dunn personally destroyed a legitimate playoff window. Now the FO is cleaning up the mess they made. The change in figurehead (KW to RH) was to shut up and sate people like yourself who couldn't see that.

 

RH is not a figurehead. We actually emphasize analytics now. We believe in building the minor league system. KW was not interested in either of those items.

Sooo, explain why fangraphs had him worth 17M the year before his injury and 500K this year? He also had the 18th highest WAR that year....Lets not act like he wasn't a damn fine pitcher before the injury.

 

He may have had a couple decent years, but his walk rate and velocity did not bode well for the long term.