Hitting .420/.478/.548 over his last 13 games. .331/.394/.461 (59 for 178) since June 4th. On pace for 1 WAR, after 3 straight years above 2. Definitely worth tendering a contract to imo, could be either a nice platoon piece if we're contending, or a decent trade chip presuming he doesn't start out as bad/unlucky as he did this year.

Edited August 18, 201411 yr by Feeky Magee

If you can bring him back for around $5 million, I have no problem with his as a left handed outfield bat. It'd be nice if he played a better CF or was more comfortable out there, but if they can't get anything, there's no harm in keeping him. It's hard to do worse in that LH bat, 4th OFer role.

If you can bring him back for around $5 million, I have no problem with his as a left handed outfield bat. It'd be nice if he played a better CF or was more comfortable out there, but if they can't get anything, there's no harm in keeping him. It's hard to do worse in that LH bat, 4th OFer role.

I agree, especially if we don't have a full time DH

I was perhaps the biggest fan of De Aza getting his shot when he got it, I think he'll earn his contract in general if he is brought back but here I have to say, no. He does not fit where this roster needs to go. He should have been dealt last offseason to avoid having to make this decision if he had a bad year. If offered Arb, we're talking about having him on a 1 year, $6-ish million deal.

 

If De Aza was available as a free agent for 1 year, $6 million, would you say that was a good use of resources? I wouldn't. He's a guy who could potentially help fill a hole on a team for a year if they're looking to compete, but he's not a long-term option and he's not going to be easily traded unless he starts off on a roll that he never found this year.

 

When we signed a guy like Paulino, or Downs, we could say "that gives us a chance to hold him if he gets better, trade him this season if he can bring a return, or at least have a solution for multiple years if he does well". None of those are the case with De Aza. If we're looking at a $75 million or lower payroll next year and not bringing anyone big in, then I'd rather take a chance on a reclamation project with several years of team control for that money. If we're looking at a higher payroll, then we have to ask whether De Aza fills the team's needs and that's a hard sell to me as well.

I would have zero problem with a rotating DH next year and De Aza could be part of that. The Sox have enough guys that could use the occasional rest from the field (Eaton, Avi, Jose) and enough decent outfielders to where you could get De Aza and Tank a start or two a week at DH along with Jose and even Adam on occasion.

 

Ideally a fairly big upgrade (talking 2 WAR) at 2B and LF and SP allows the Sox to enter '15 in contention without spending much money on DH.

Edited August 18, 201411 yr by chitownsportsfan

I was perhaps the biggest fan of De Aza getting his shot when he got it, I think he'll earn his contract in general if he is brought back but here I have to say, no. He does not fit where this roster needs to go. He should have been dealt last offseason to avoid having to make this decision if he had a bad year. If offered Arb, we're talking about having him on a 1 year, $6-ish million deal.

 

If De Aza was available as a free agent for 1 year, $6 million, would you say that was a good use of resources? I wouldn't. He's a guy who could potentially help fill a hole on a team for a year if they're looking to compete, but he's not a long-term option and he's not going to be easily traded unless he starts off on a roll that he never found this year.

 

When we signed a guy like Paulino, or Downs, we could say "that gives us a chance to hold him if he gets better, trade him this season if he can bring a return, or at least have a solution for multiple years if he does well". None of those are the case with De Aza. If we're looking at a $75 million or lower payroll next year and not bringing anyone big in, then I'd rather take a chance on a reclamation project with several years of team control for that money. If we're looking at a higher payroll, then we have to ask whether De Aza fills the team's needs and that's a hard sell to me as well.

 

Yea but it's not like he couldn't be flipped. He's established a pretty good baseline as a 1.5 to 2.5 WAR player, that has value and for 5-7 million I'd have no problem bringing him back either because the Sox think they can contend or as a flippable bat at the deadline or even winter meetings.

I was perhaps the biggest fan of De Aza getting his shot when he got it, I think he'll earn his contract in general if he is brought back but here I have to say, no. He does not fit where this roster needs to go. He should have been dealt last offseason to avoid having to make this decision if he had a bad year. If offered Arb, we're talking about having him on a 1 year, $6-ish million deal.

 

If De Aza was available as a free agent for 1 year, $6 million, would you say that was a good use of resources? I wouldn't. He's a guy who could potentially help fill a hole on a team for a year if they're looking to compete, but he's not a long-term option and he's not going to be easily traded unless he starts off on a roll that he never found this year.

 

When we signed a guy like Paulino, or Downs, we could say "that gives us a chance to hold him if he gets better, trade him this season if he can bring a return, or at least have a solution for multiple years if he does well". None of those are the case with De Aza. If we're looking at a $75 million or lower payroll next year and not bringing anyone big in, then I'd rather take a chance on a reclamation project with several years of team control for that money. If we're looking at a higher payroll, then we have to ask whether De Aza fills the team's needs and that's a hard sell to me as well.

 

 

Agree 100%.

 

Scouts have seen him playing the last two months. They know his limitations defensively, on the basepaths and against LHP.

 

If someone really wanted him, he would be gone by now.

 

Not part of the future, and there's so many faults and limitations in his game that won't change or improve...just no way.

 

 

Tyler Flowers is a totally different situation...whether to hold onto him or not.

Hitting .420/.478/.548 over his last 13 games. .331/.394/.461 (59 for 178) since June 4th. On pace for 1 WAR, after 3 straight years above 2. Definitely worth tendering a contract to imo, could be either a nice platoon piece if we're contending, or a decent trade chip presuming he doesn't start out as bad/unlucky as he did this year.

 

There is no reason to pay arb salaries to both DeAza and Viciedo when they are both producing an OPS under .700. Jordan Danks can suck at the plate for a lot less money plus he's at least a good defensive replacement and pinch runner.

I feel the people who are really in support of De Aza being back are the people who really put a ton of stock in stats. On paper sure he isn't bad. But when you actually watch him play and all the little things he does wrong, he doesn't really fit into what I assume Hahn and the rest of the FO are trying to build here. I think they are gonna be looking for fundamental players who can be counted on to actually catch most routine balls in LF and not get picked off at 1b when down by a couple runs in the late innings. De Aza has tools, but he isn't developing anymore and has been one of the main reasons why it looks like a circuit act on the field occassionally over the past 2 years.

 

A lot of these reasons are why I also feel Viciedo will be gone.

I feel the people who are really in support of De Aza being back are the people who really put a ton of stock in stats. On paper sure he isn't bad. But when you actually watch him play and all the little things he does wrong, he doesn't really fit into what I assume Hahn and the rest of the FO are trying to build here. I think they are gonna be looking for fundamental players who can be counted on to actually catch most routine balls in LF and not get picked off at 1b when down by a couple runs in the late innings. De Aza has tools, but he isn't developing anymore and has been one of the main reasons why it looks like a circuit act on the field occassionally over the past 2 years.

 

A lot of these reasons are why I also feel Viciedo will be gone.

 

No, he's bad on paper also. At best he is a 4th OF or maybe a platoon LF, but his arb salary is going to be way more than what you should be paying somebody like that.

 

Now, if he's non-tendered and no other team offers him more than $1.75M or so, then maybe it would be OK to have him back. Under no circumstances should he ever start vs LHP though.

I feel the people who are really in support of De Aza being back are the people who really put a ton of stock in stats. On paper sure he isn't bad. But when you actually watch him play and all the little things he does wrong, he doesn't really fit into what I assume Hahn and the rest of the FO are trying to build here. I think they are gonna be looking for fundamental players who can be counted on to actually catch most routine balls in LF and not get picked off at 1b when down by a couple runs in the late innings. De Aza has tools, but he isn't developing anymore and has been one of the main reasons why it looks like a circuit act on the field occassionally over the past 2 years.

 

A lot of these reasons are why I also feel Viciedo will be gone.

At least with Viciedo you can still get to "the team has control of him for 3 more years and he's young enough that a breakout season and several successful years afterwards" are still possible. If the Sox get rid of him because they've decided they don't think that can happen for him in Chicago, I get that, but I also would have no problem with the White Sox spending $5 million on a guy like that if one were brought in. That's very different from the case with De Aza.

There is no reason to pay arb salaries to both DeAza and Viciedo when they are both producing an OPS under .700. Jordan Danks can suck at the plate for a lot less money plus he's at least a good defensive replacement and pinch runner.

I would non-tender De Aza because of his steady decline, but let's be honest - there are degrees of sucking. Jordan Danks is not De Aza's equal with the bat.

De Aza really didnt play well in the platoon with Viciedo. He had a strong first week with 4 HR then tanked big time. Since returning to full time, he's been really good. He needs to play full time in order for him to be successful. Sox need to be thinking of that when/if they decide to tender/non-tender.

 

 

I would non-tender De Aza because of his steady decline, but let's be honest - there are degrees of sucking. Jordan Danks is not De Aza's equal with the bat.

But Jordan is also significantly better than De Aza on defense, particularly if you count ability to be a backup CF.

Not only is that a terribly small sample size, I don't know that it's true. De Aza's 3 HRs would have elevated his stats to at least respectable in the first three week. I remember him sucking after the first series but the HRs will still propel the stats. Garcia went down in what I think was the third series of the year. Probably the 8th or 9th game. So I doubt the FO is going to base De Aza's ability to come off the bench off of that little span of time.

 

I don't think De Aza would be a bad option as a 4th outfielder but it seems they have had about their fill with De Aza. I sure hope, at the least, Viciedo is moved this winter as for some reason he still has some value.

Ya, he's never really been in a platoon this year.

 

I honestly wouldn't be mad if we tendered him a contract or if he we non-tendered him. I'd be fine with either scenario.

It's obvious that the Sox think more of De Aza than Tank as it's Tank that is on the bench when Avi is healthy. If anything, it's Viciedo that is persona non grata in the org (as he should be imo, his profile gets more and more Wily Mo Pena esque with every passing PA).

 

 

But Jordan is also significantly better than De Aza on defense, particularly if you count ability to be a backup CF.

De Aza defense > Danks bat. There's no reasonable argument over who the better player is. Better per dollar or better fit for the 2015 White Sox, those might be arguments. Personally I don't think either is a part of the plan.

It's obvious that the Sox think more of De Aza than Tank as it's Tank that is on the bench when Avi is healthy. If anything, it's Viciedo that is persona non grata in the org (as he should be imo, his profile gets more and more Wily Mo Pena esque with every passing PA).

 

 

That's hard to say, simply because there are a lot more RHSPers than lefties.

 

It's doubtful DeAza is here after this season. Viciedo's more of a question mark because of the lack of power available on the FA market for reasonable prices.

But Jordan is also significantly better than De Aza on defense, particularly if you count ability to be a backup CF.

Danks isn't even a particularly good defender. He's okay.

His offense is terrible.

 

The Sox need to do better than Danks as a 4th OF if they are serious.

 

DE Aza looks worse on defense than he actually is.

De Aza defense > Danks bat. There's no reasonable argument over who the better player is. Better per dollar or better fit for the 2015 White Sox, those might be arguments. Personally I don't think either is a part of the plan.

 

The Sox need to do better than Danks as a 4th OF if they are serious.

 

Viciedo is the odd man out. De Aza should be the 4th OF / Rotating DH IMO. Cut bait on Tank, get a real LF in and then De Aza is your super sub getting 400 PA. Not a bad plan for a contender. They have to improve the bench next year as well if they want to squeeze out a another win or two.

Edited August 18, 201411 yr by chitownsportsfan

If we can find another lefty RF or LF OF on the trade or free agent markets, I am perfectly happy with both Viciedo and De Aza not being back next year.

Danks isn't even a particularly good defender. He's okay.

His offense is terrible.

 

The Sox need to do better than Danks as a 4th OF if they are serious.

 

DE Aza looks worse on defense than he actually is.

 

The big difference is that Danks will make all of the plays that you ask him to make, and he isn't going to blow the routine plays. Spectacular? No. I'd say slightly above average.

Goodbye.

There's no way in hell they're going to pay DeAza $6 million as the 4th outfielder.

 

If they're not serious about contending next season, you'll see DeAza starting in LF again next year.

De Aza defense > Danks bat. There's no reasonable argument over who the better player is. Better per dollar or better fit for the 2015 White Sox, those might be arguments. Personally I don't think either is a part of the plan.

 

This