Adrian Peterson indicted for negligent injury to a child

[IlliniKrush]

This has nothing to do with you attacking anyone. And I am not defending anyone. I'm encouraging you to not be so offensive to those who don't share your opinion, or at the least, to substantiate your very strongly worded opinions with some sort of reason or logic.

 

This notion that folks from previous generations who reference their experience with discipline need to "go away" is offensive to me. It offers very little to the conversation and doesn't particularly allow anyone to learn anything. I'm just supposed to agree with you and take your word for it.

Well, when it comes to beating a child with a stick or hitting children, my words and opinions can be strong. So be it.

 

I've added plenty since typing the ever-offensive "go away," including reason and logic which you somehow keep ignoring, but asking me to add.

 

And whether you think you are or not, you're defending the "older generation" and presumably people who hit their children, which I don't believe are one in the same.

[Balta1701]

I'm not stating those things are caused directly by a lack of discipline. I'm saying those things coupled with a lack of discipline are problematic.

 

You might have noticed I mentioned what I believe might be causes after that post, and those included our food supply and rapid advances in technology.

So you're saying they're contributors. That's what I'm saying the evidence for is lacking, both from your posts and from my reading of the available/testable data. If "a lack of discipline" was a key contributor, then there are testable predictions made that aren't holding up from what I've presented. If you can give a stronger correlation I'm happy to see it, but it has to be better than the level of "the kids are too distracted and things are getting worse" when the evidence argues against that.

[IlliniKrush]

What does "My mama beat me and I think I turned out OK" offer to the conversation?

I don't know.

[iamshack]

What does "My mama beat me and I think I turned out OK" offer to the conversation?

You are diminishing their experience, first of all.

 

And secondly, let's not pretend this is that simple. That statement is an oversimplification of the real debate/discussion that needs to occur. And that is what kind of discipline is appropriate? Is physical punishment of any kind appropriate. Are we saying I can't whack my kid on the back of the head with the back of my hand if I see him disrespect an elder or kick a dog or something? Are we saying that a parent doing that is doing more harm than one who calls his kid a jackass for doing the same?

 

It isn't as if all our elders were beaten with sticks. There were varying forms of discipline/punishment that were culturally acceptable. What I believe they are trying to say is that not all of those forms of punishment equated to abusing your child, and actually may have instilled valuable qualities in them.

[bmags]

From what I understand, kids these days are having less babies than ever, scoring better on tests than ever, smoking less cigarettes since cigarettes became popular, less violent than 50 years ago and returning to pre-war levels...

 

That doesn't sound like a discipline problem.

[iamshack]

Well, when it comes to beating a child with a stick or hitting children, my words and opinions can be strong. So be it.

 

I've added plenty since typing the ever-offensive "go away," including reason and logic which you somehow keep ignoring, but asking me to add.

 

And whether you think you are or not, you're defending the "older generation" and presumably people who hit their children, which I don't believe are one in the same.

Again, you AND BALTA for that matter, are missing the point I'm trying to make (or at least one of them).

 

I've agreed with you about beating a child with a stick. CAN WE ALL AGREE THAT WE BELIEVE IT IS WRONG TO BEAT A CHILD WITH A STICK?

 

What offended me was your general attitude towards others who don't agree with you. They should agree with you, or go f*** themselves, because they are wrong. Often times you direct this at other cultures generations.

 

This issue just happens to be the latest occurrence of this happening, and so I reacted. Got it?

[bmags]

I think we can all agree that iamshack is a great example of how to debate respectfully.

[iamshack]

From what I understand, kids these days are having less babies than ever, scoring better on tests than ever, smoking less cigarettes since cigarettes became popular, less violent than 50 years ago and returning to pre-war levels...

 

That doesn't sound like a discipline problem.

Hah! They also don't have to support their families as much by working, they have vastly more opportunities for schooling, they have incredible technological advances, etc.

 

Are they doing any other drugs other than nicotine?

 

What are the rates of obesity? ADHD? How much exercise do they get? How much time do they spend outdoors? How much do they actually interact with other children outside of school?

 

[iamshack]

I think we can all agree that iamshack is a great example of how to debate respectfully.

Honestly, you could learn a thing or two.

 

I may not always be correct, but at the very least I try to explain my position on things and be reasonable and logical.

 

I certainly don't tell those that disagree with me to go away or that their opinion has no value.

Edited September 18, 2014 by iamshack

[bmags]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkbl...eral-data-show/

[Steve9347]

CAN WE ALL AGREE THAT WE BELIEVE IT IS WRONG TO BEAT A CHILD WITH A STICK?

Yes.

 

What offended me was your general attitude towards others who don't agree with you.

Wait. What?

[bmags]

I'm going to strike you a deal, past generation, if you stop spanking your kids, they will kill each other less, do less drugs, have less sex and be smarter, but they will go outdoors less.

 

I wonder what they will choose.

[IlliniKrush]

You are diminishing their experience, first of all.

 

And secondly, let's not pretend this is that simple. That statement is an oversimplification of the real debate/discussion that needs to occur. And that is what kind of discipline is appropriate? Is physical punishment of any kind appropriate. Are we saying I can't whack my kid on the back of the head with the back of my hand if I see him disrespect an elder or kick a dog or something? Are we saying that a parent doing that is doing more harm than one who calls his kid a jackass for doing the same?

 

It isn't as if all our elders were beaten with sticks. There were varying forms of discipline/punishment that were culturally acceptable. What I believe they are trying to say is that not all of those forms of punishment equated to abusing your child, and actually may have instilled valuable qualities in them.

Except they aren't saying that. As you would say, tell them to provide some sort of reason or logic behind it.

 

That's why we said "go away." They are just saying since it happened to me, and "I'm OK" (which is patently false IMO if they end up hitting their kids), it's acceptable.

[Kyyle23]

before this escalates, just gonna throw out the DONT LET THIS ESCALATE TO PERSONAL ATTACKS company line.

 

hopefully you all see it and try to abide by it

[iamshack]

I'm going to strike you a deal, past generation, if you stop spanking your kids, they will kill each other less, do less drugs, have less sex and be smarter, but they will go outdoors less.

 

I wonder what they will choose.

Ok, so it's fair for you to say the fact that we spank children less results in a decrease in violence, but if I say obesity and lack of discipline in the same sentence, Balta insists I am saying one causes the other and insisting I link to 20 studies within five minutes.

 

Fair enough.

[LittleHurt05]

You are diminishing their experience, first of all.

 

And secondly, let's not pretend this is that simple. That statement is an oversimplification of the real debate/discussion that needs to occur. And that is what kind of discipline is appropriate? Is physical punishment of any kind appropriate. Are we saying I can't whack my kid on the back of the head with the back of my hand if I see him disrespect an elder or kick a dog or something? Are we saying that a parent doing that is doing more harm than one who calls his kid a jackass for doing the same?

 

It isn't as if all our elders were beaten with sticks. There were varying forms of discipline/punishment that were culturally acceptable. What I believe they are trying to say is that not all of those forms of punishment equated to abusing your child, and actually may have instilled valuable qualities in them.

 

As are the people you are defending. Instead of looking back at their experiences and thinking about how things could have gone differently, maybe for the positive, it's "If it happened to me, it has to be the right way."

[iamshack]

Except they aren't saying that. As you would say, tell them to provide some sort of reason or logic behind it.

 

That's why we said "go away." They are just saying since it happened to me, and "I'm OK" (which is patently false IMO if they end up hitting their kids), it's acceptable.

Maybe you could ask one of them. What we've heard, and what you've referenced, is Mike Ditka in a 3-second ESPN clip.

 

But I'll bet if you engaged a grandparent or a neighbor in a thoughtful conversation about their experiences it might be worthwhile and you wouldn't say "Go away, old man!"

[bmags]

Ok, so it's fair for you to say the fact that we spank children less results in a decrease in violence, but if I say obesity and lack of discipline in the same sentence, Balta insists I am saying one causes the other and insisting I link to 20 studies within five minutes.

 

Fair enough.

 

I don't believe a lack of spanking is the reason this group is much better than your cohorts, however, I do think that the declining rates of that type of behavior does not indicate that this group would be undisciplined.

[iamshack]

As are the people you are defending. Instead of looking back at their experiences and thinking about how things could have gone differently, maybe for the positive, it's "If it happened to me, it has to be the right way."

There are certainly some folks like that, and I don't mean for you to infer that I am "defending" them.

 

 

[IlliniKrush]

Maybe you could ask one of them. What we've heard, and what you've referenced, is Mike Ditka in a 3-second ESPN clip.

 

But I'll bet if you engaged a grandparent or a neighbor in a thoughtful conversation about their experiences it might be worthwhile and you wouldn't say "Go away, old man!"

Or Charles Barkley, Reggie Bush, et al.

 

I've talked to grandparents. I've talked to parents, aunts/uncles.

 

However, it's my opinion that hitting a child, especially with a weapon, is not OK. I will never find someone's experience with hitting their child as worthwhile or valuable.

[iamshack]

Or Charles Barkley, Reggie Bush, et al.

 

I've talked to grandparents. I've talked to parents, aunts/uncles.

 

However, it's my opinion that hitting a child, especially with a weapon, is not OK. I will never find someone's experience with hitting their child as worthwhile or valuable.

How many times can I say I agree with you in regards to the bolded?

 

What do you define as "hitting a child"?

[Balta1701]

Ok, so it's fair for you to say the fact that we spank children less results in a decrease in violence, but if I say obesity and lack of discipline in the same sentence, Balta insists I am saying one causes the other and insisting I link to 20 studies within five minutes.

 

Fair enough.

The reason I didn't challenge this claim is that the literature actually strongly supports it (plus I had a seminar to go to). Study after study finds the same thing.

 

Press report 1

Press release summarizing multiple studies

Press report 2 of different study, same result

Press report 3, international study, same result

Press report 4, different study, same result

 

If I need to get to 20 I can. This effect has been shown again and again at this point, physical discipline in children leads to children who are more likely to deploy violence on their own.

[iamshack]

The reason I didn't challenge this claim is that the literature actually strongly supports it (plus I had a seminar to go to). Study after study finds the same thing.

 

Press report 1

Press release summarizing multiple studies

Press report 2 of different study, same result

Press report 3, international study, same result

Press report 4, different study, same result

 

If I need to get to 20 I can. This effect has been shown again and again at this point, physical discipline in children leads to children who are more likely to deploy violence on their own.

By all means, please post 100.

 

When you're finished, you can link to all the studies about the negative effects of the poor without access to smartphones.

Edited September 18, 2014 by iamshack

[Quin]

I've lost track of Shack's argument.

[iamshack]

I've lost track of Shack's argument.

That tends to happen when you have 5 people misunderstanding your original point all challenging you at once.

 

But you know what, Quin?

 

This latest generation of message board posters knows everything; all the parenting experience that has occurred throughout the history of human civilization should be summarily dismissed with a wave of the hand because those people are stupid and need to go away.

Edited September 18, 2014 by iamshack