Jonah Keri's Trade Value Column is out on grantland.com. It's a really great piece. Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, and Jose Abreu are all very good for the record, haha.

 

http://grantland.com/features/2014-mlb-tra...ankings-part-1/

http://grantland.com/features/2014-mlb-tra...ankings-part-2/

and hoping Rondon will be on next years!

and hoping Rondon will be on next years!

 

Rodon. But yes.

 

Rodon. But yes.

Thanks!

Quintana being nothing more than an honorable mention is puzzling to me, and a big miss on Keri's part.

Quintana being nothing more than an honorable mention is puzzling to me, and a big miss on Keri's part.

 

A guy who put up 5+ fWAR on a cheap contract under team control for a while. He's also left-handed.

 

It's not easy to get into the top 50, but it seems like Quintana is the perfect combo of talent, team control, and below-market value contract.

Take it up with Jonah Keri on twitter. He answered some of my questions yesterday.

A guy who put up 5+ fWAR on a cheap contract under team control for a while. He's also left-handed.

 

It's not easy to get into the top 50, but it seems like Quintana is the perfect combo of talent, team control, and below-market value contract.

Yep. The Jays would trade Encarnacion (49) for him? The Phillies wouldn't give up Hamels (39)?

Yep. The Jays would trade Encarnacion (49) for him? The Phillies wouldn't give up Hamels (39)?

 

Not sure how Hamels and his huge contract made it at 39. Especially when you consider Quintana was better last year.

Quintana being nothing more than an honorable mention is puzzling to me, and a big miss on Keri's part.

 

Same. Cameron nailed Quintana, i thought, on his. But there's just no way I can fathom Cole Hamels being more valuable than Quintana in a trade.

Not sure how Hamels and his huge contract made it at 39. Especially when you consider Quintana was better last year.

 

Is Hamels' contract really huge in relative terms? 4 years 90 million is going to look dirt cheap to trade for after what Lester and Scherzer get as free agents. Hamels is a top 10 pitcher in baseball....Q is very good, but he's not on Hamels' level

.Q is very good, but he's not on Hamels' level

I think a lot of people would disagree with you on this.

FWIW most projection systems have Jose pegged for a sharp regression next year. Probably factored into Keri's thinking.

Is Hamels' contract really huge in relative terms? 4 years 90 million is going to look dirt cheap to trade for after what Lester and Scherzer get as free agents. Hamels is a top 10 pitcher in baseball....Q is very good, but he's not on Hamels' level

 

Comparatively speaking, yes, Hamels' contract is a huge negative when compared in context with Jose Quintana, and then figure that Jose Quintana was an absolutely phenomenal pitcher and he continues to improve enternig his age 26 season while Cole Hamels will likely only go down from year entering his age 31 season, and it's clear to anyone that Jose Quintana is a far more valuable pitcher and likely a much safer bet moving forward.

FWIW most projection systems have Jose pegged for a sharp regression next year. Probably factored into Keri's thinking.

I'm intrigued as to why this is? Has this been the case for the last few years?

Lack of track record, "underrated status" play into it.

 

Mostly I would guess its his very low HR/FB rate. Even if he regresses he is still a 3 WAR pitcher on a dirt cheap contract.

Comparatively speaking, yes, Hamels' contract is a huge negative when compared in context with Jose Quintana, and then figure that Jose Quintana was an absolutely phenomenal pitcher and he continues to improve enternig his age 26 season while Cole Hamels will likely only go down from year entering his age 31 season, and it's clear to anyone that Jose Quintana is a far more valuable pitcher and likely a much safer bet moving forward.

Here's a beauty of a stat.

 

In his career, Cole Hamels has never put up a single season that produced as much fWAR as Quintana did last year. Quintana put up 5.3 fWAR, Cole Hamels's best season is 4.6 fWAR.

 

At age 25, Jose Quintana outpitched any season in Cole Hamels's career.

Is Hamels' contract really huge in relative terms? 4 years 90 million is going to look dirt cheap to trade for after what Lester and Scherzer get as free agents. Hamels is a top 10 pitcher in baseball....Q is very good, but he's not on Hamels' level

 

What? How do you figure?

Here's a beauty of a stat.

 

In his career, Cole Hamels has never put up a single season that produced as much fWAR as Quintana did last year. Quintana put up 5.3 fWAR, Cole Hamels's best season is 4.6 fWAR.

 

At age 25, Jose Quintana outpitched any season in Cole Hamels's career.

 

People like you are why I hate that sabermetrics have become so household. You just regurgitate some number you vaguely understand and it's concrete fact in your mind. Please explain to me, in your own words, how Q was better than Hamels last year.

SIGH.

 

There are about 50 reasons Quintana is overlooked.

 

And probably 90% of baseball fans would think your favorite team trading top prospects for Cole Hamels (despite his age and contract) is a better bet than trading those same prospects for Quintana.

 

You can practically guarantee that there would be a significantly blip on the season ticket radar for any team adding Hamels.

 

(Of course, this is not a smart way to run a franchise, looking at short-term PR gains versus longer term, repeatable success).

People like you are why I hate that sabermetrics have become so household. You just regurgitate some number you vaguely understand and it's concrete fact in your mind. Please explain to me, in your own words, how Q was better than Hamels last year.

 

I think they are pretty comparable pitchers. Q strikes out a few less but also walks a few less per 9. Both pitched about 200 innings on bad teams. Similar ground balls rates, Q gave up a few less dingers. They are very comparable stat-wise, but Q is younger and much cheaper, which makes him more valuable.

People like you are why I hate that sabermetrics have become so household. You just regurgitate some number you vaguely understand and it's concrete fact in your mind. Please explain to me, in your own words, how Q was better than Hamels last year.

Please explain to me why Hamels is so much better than Q and you can't use stats cause those aren't your own words.

Please explain to me why Hamels is so much better than Q and you can't use stats cause those aren't your own words.

Put them both on the open market and Hamel's is going to get the better contract and be more in demand. Part of Q's value is tied to his team friendly contract.

Put them both on the open market and Hamel's is going to get the better contract and be more in demand. Part of Q's value is tied to his team friendly contract.

 

you said his value, i disagree. it is his appeal that contract is a great contract for

the team.

 

the main problem is he is underrated. a person will not think that much of him

until they see the stats for themselves.

People like you are why I hate that sabermetrics have become so household. You just regurgitate some number you vaguely understand and it's concrete fact in your mind. Please explain to me, in your own words, how Q was better than Hamels last year.

 

Just because you don't understand a stat doesn't make it wrong or the people citing it wrong. Quintana and Hamels put up very similar FIP and xFIP numbers. The part that you are completely ignoring is that one pitches in the NL and one pitches in the AL (both pitch in hitter's parks so park factor is pretty much negated).

Edited December 5, 201411 yr by lasttriptotulsa