*sigh*

 

When's the last Sox position player prospect that amounted to anything near what Ben Zobrist will produce over the next 5 years?

 

I agree Hahn probably wouldn't do it, but he really should if presented with the opportunity.

It's a tough call. A real tough call. We've all seen the Sox lack of success with positional prospects, the lack of attendance which supposedly limits the budget plus the Sox never having made the playoffs even 2 years in a row. I understand why you would "sigh" . One year of success seems like it's worth it with everything weve seen taking place with this team over the past 20 years. Plus there's the good chance Samardzija walks after the year . Rodon absolutely has to become what we all hope he can be for the Sox to have any sustained success. At least one other pitcher among the prospects has to rise to prominence . Zobrist would help but the Sox most likely don't have the bullets for him . At his age and for one year can Hahn reasonably justify giving up any prospect who is viewed as a key future cog ?

 

On the bright side there's a chance the Sox can make the playiffs without him and if we're in the race at the trade deadline we'll know more about the team and see how prospects fare up here and in the minors.

It's a tough call. A real tough call. We've all seen the Sox lack of success with positional prospects, the lack of attendance which supposedly limits the budget plus the Sox never having made the playoffs even 2 years in a row. I understand why you would "sigh" . One year of success seems like it's worth it with everything weve seen taking place with this team over the past 20 years. Plus there's the good chance Samardzija walks after the year . Rodon absolutely has to become what we all hope he can be for the Sox to have any sustained success. At least one other pitcher among the prospects has to rise to prominence . Zobrist would help but the Sox most likely don't have the bullets for him . At his age and for one year can Hahn reasonably justify giving up any prospect who is viewed as a key future cog ?

 

On the bright side there's a chance the Sox can make the playiffs without him and if we're in the race at the trade deadline we'll know more about the team and see how prospects fare up here and in the minors.

 

this is a nice write up. the main problem i have in any of these posts, is not what is

being written but, its a bite that we as fans do not know what is being asked from

the sox. that is first the sox went out and contacted them.

 

this is the 1 problem i have always had with JR. "just spend enuf to get to the playoff,

do not spend extra". again i am not saying lets dangle the sox top prospects.

*sigh*

 

When's the last Sox position player prospect that amounted to anything near what Ben Zobrist will produce over the next 5 years?

 

I agree Hahn probably wouldn't do it, but he really should if presented with the opportunity.

 

But the idea to build a sustainable model shouldn't be based on the premise that, because they have struggled to develop hitters, they will never develop a hitter again. That's overly simplifying the subject and is not a good organizational philosophy.

If I was Tampa I would be thinking when will his peak value be? I'm going to toss out there that for a utility guy it will be now unless a contending team has an injury that makes it imperative that they acquire a BZ kind of guy. With BZ you are looking at steady contributions all season, helping your starters rest, etc. Not major boost to clinch a division.

 

But, I'd like to hear other opinions.

But the idea to build a sustainable model shouldn't be based on the premise that, because they have struggled to develop hitters, they will never develop a hitter again. That's overly simplifying the subject and is not a good organizational philosophy.

 

that is a good counter, but their are several problems at play

here.

1. using whatever talent in the system to obtain a player that

is needed esp if he can help in the playoff run.

~~~ KW philosophy was to use that talent to get players who can

make the team better. he always thought they were 1 player short.

2. not developing the farm system.

~~~ use some of the talent if the system has an abundance of talent

~~~ not use the talent in trades or anything, unless the team is very

close to competing. to give the team the final piece.

 

this system was totally screwed up, but that window of opportunity is

now, not 4-5 yrs from now when those prospects have the time to

develop, if they do develop.

 

I think some people are using the term "utility guy" incorrectly in regards to Zobrist. It's almost as if some people feel that him being a "utility guy" is a bad thing and makes him less valuable.

 

Just because he plays multiple positions doesn't mean he's not an everyday starter. If a team wanted to use him exclusively at one position, he'd still be well above average at most spots. In fact, I'd argue that his versatility makes him more valuable than his individual numbers alone suggest. His presence allows for more matchup plays and provides insurance at multiple spots in the event of injury. Neither of those can be quantified very easily and his rolled into his WAR, but both make him more valuable to the team.

I think some people are using the term "utility guy" incorrectly in regards to Zobrist. It's almost as if some people feel that him being a "utility guy" is a bad thing and makes him less valuable.

 

Just because he plays multiple positions doesn't mean he's not an everyday starter. If a team wanted to use him exclusively at one position, he'd still be well above average at most spots. In fact, I'd argue that his versatility makes him more valuable than his individual numbers alone suggest. His presence allows for more matchup plays and provides insurance at multiple spots in the event of injury. Neither of those can be quantified very easily and his rolled into his WAR, but both make him more valuable to the team.

 

a very good point, and let me add, a player who will play different

position without the team suffering defenselessly, for whatever

yrs the teams wants him.

I think some people are using the term "utility guy" incorrectly in regards to Zobrist. It's almost as if some people feel that him being a "utility guy" is a bad thing and makes him less valuable.

 

Just because he plays multiple positions doesn't mean he's not an everyday starter. If a team wanted to use him exclusively at one position, he'd still be well above average at most spots. In fact, I'd argue that his versatility makes him more valuable than his individual numbers alone suggest. His presence allows for more matchup plays and provides insurance at multiple spots in the event of injury. Neither of those can be quantified very easily and his rolled into his WAR, but both make him more valuable to the team.

 

I touched on that intangible value a little earlier in the thread, but it's worth mentioning again. It's one way of getting around having a very shallow or poor bench.

 

Zobrist adds a lot to a team, but I think it's really hard to justify what he may cost on the trade market for the current version of the Sox team.

My only hope here is the market is not as high as we assume for a player entering free agency. The cost of prospects seems be coming down from its high, but still pretty large. Maybe they are willing to shed without Anderson.

I think most of us here would peg the Sox for around 83-85 wins next season. Now add 4-5 wins to that for the difference between Zobrist and Carlos/Micah. I think 87-90 wins gives us a pretty great chance at a wild card.

 

That being said, I don't think there is any chance the Sox get Zobrist because his asking price will be Anderson +, and that's just not something I can see Hahn doing.

There is no team in MLB that would trade Andeson + for 1 year of Zobrist.

He is ridiculously over-valued here, and his value is highly likely to continue decline given his age. In fact, his numbers are down a full 100 OPS points over the last 2 years, a fact ignored hereon.

*sigh*

 

When's the last Sox position player prospect that amounted to anything near what Ben Zobrist will produce over the next 5 years?

 

I agree Hahn probably wouldn't do it, but he really should if presented with the opportunity.

NO, he really shouldn't.

First, he has 1 year left on his deal, not 5.

Second, he will be 34 year old next year, and the numbers have already tailed off a good bit over the last 2 seasons. Over the next 5? Yes, I would take my chances on young players.

Third, his high WAR, as pointed out on here, is mainly from defense and defense from multiple positions. He would be 2B only and those defensive metrics are still in the dubious category anyway. (see DeAza with a positive war).

And should I point out that his splits against RHP is a .703 OPS? he kills lefties. Looks like a platoon hitter these days.

Top prospects for that? No way.

Trade top prospects for young talent, not declining veterans.

Edited January 2, 201511 yr by GreenSox

There is no team in MLB that would trade Andeson + for 1 year of Zobrist.

He is ridiculously over-valued here, and his value is highly likely to continue decline given his age. In fact, his numbers are down a full 100 OPS points over the last 2 years, a fact ignored hereon.

 

i agree, i was stunned when i if mention it. the value of the

rtn blew me out of the water. however it also gave me a

different option, if that is what tpa wanted in return.

NO, he really shouldn't.

First, he has 1 year left on his deal, not 5.

Second, he will be 34 year old next year, and the numbers have already tailed off a good bit over the last 2 seasons. Over the next 5? Yes, I would take my chances on young players.

Third, his high WAR, as pointed out on here, is mainly from defense and defense from multiple positions. He would be 2B only and those defensive metrics are still in the dubious category anyway. (see DeAza with a positive war).

And should I point out that his splits against RHP is a .703 OPS? he kills lefties. Looks like a platoon hitter these days.

Top prospects for that? No way.

Trade top prospects for young talent, not declining veterans.

 

you can trade for young talent if there was 1 avail, but if not, you can

trade for a stop gap. it is obvious the sox brass may be thinking that

way if the trade rumors are to be taken with a grain of salt.

There is no team in MLB that would trade Andeson + for 1 year of Zobrist.

He is ridiculously over-valued here, and his value is highly likely to continue decline given his age. In fact, his numbers are down a full 100 OPS points over the last 2 years, a fact ignored hereon.

 

Sure there are. Like most of the teams that have better farm systems than us. Especially the teams where Anderson would rank as their #5 or #6 prospect. If Anderson was on the Cubs, there is no doubt they would trade their 4th best young SHORT STOP for Zobrist. Just because the Sox probably can't afford that price, doesn't mean no team can afford it.

 

 

Giants are rumored to be hot after Zobrist. If you wanted to find an Anderson equivalent in their system, prospect ranking-wise, I would say he's probably somewhere between Keury Mella and Clayton Blackburn. If we had a top 100 list released yet, we could find out much easier, but for now, those are my guesses to someone who would have similar rankings to Anderson. Now, if a Zobrist deal is done, then I would be guessing one of those guys would be in the deal, in which case I would say my theory of Zobrist's cost could be accurate.

Giants are rumored to be hot after Zobrist. If you wanted to find an Anderson equivalent in their system, prospect ranking-wise, I would say he's probably somewhere between Keury Mella and Clayton Blackburn. If we had a top 100 list released yet, we could find out much easier, but for now, those are my guesses to someone who would have similar rankings to Anderson. Now, if a Zobrist deal is done, then I would be guessing one of those guys would be in the deal, in which case I would say my theory of Zobrist's cost could be accurate.

 

you see, when 1 team needs and find a fix, it will open other avenues.

in other words the domino effect.

 

keep the options open.

Giants are rumored to be hot after Zobrist. If you wanted to find an Anderson equivalent in their system, prospect ranking-wise, I would say he's probably somewhere between Keury Mella and Clayton Blackburn. If we had a top 100 list released yet, we could find out much easier, but for now, those are my guesses to someone who would have similar rankings to Anderson. Now, if a Zobrist deal is done, then I would be guessing one of those guys would be in the deal, in which case I would say my theory of Zobrist's cost could be accurate.

 

While I agree that Anderson would be lower in some systems, I think I'd be surprised if he weren't in the top 3-5 of every team in the league. I think you're underrating him quite a bit as there's enough helium in his stock right now to see him very possibly end up in the top 50.

 

From the Giants, depending on how comfortable they are with Posey remaining behind the plate, Susac is a guy who could make a lot of sense for Tampa. Not that Tampa wouldn't have interest in Blackburn or Mella too, but I think they'd like someone who will contribute this year. They have been selling pieces off, but I don't think they view themselves as rebuilding as much as they are retooling.

While I agree that Anderson would be lower in some systems, I think I'd be surprised if he weren't in the top 3-5 of every team in the league. I think you're underrating him quite a bit as there's enough helium in his stock right now to see him very possibly end up in the top 50.

 

From the Giants, depending on how comfortable they are with Posey remaining behind the plate, Susac is a guy who could make a lot of sense for Tampa. Not that Tampa wouldn't have interest in Blackburn or Mella too, but I think they'd like someone who will contribute this year. They have been selling pieces off, but I don't think they view themselves as rebuilding as much as they are retooling.

 

it will of course varies with the team listed prospects. no matter what will happen

in the future, the sox can still work with TPA on the trade front.

While I agree that Anderson would be lower in some systems, I think I'd be surprised if he weren't in the top 3-5 of every team in the league. I think you're underrating him quite a bit as there's enough helium in his stock right now to see him very possibly end up in the top 50.

 

From the Giants, depending on how comfortable they are with Posey remaining behind the plate, Susac is a guy who could make a lot of sense for Tampa. Not that Tampa wouldn't have interest in Blackburn or Mella too, but I think they'd like someone who will contribute this year. They have been selling pieces off, but I don't think they view themselves as rebuilding as much as they are retooling.

 

Just for reference, John Sickels has Mella as their #3 prospect, Blackburn as their #5 prospect. Their #4 prospect is Tyler Beede, but I'm assuming he wouldn't be traded as a PTBNL, so I didn't include him as a trade comp. Susac and Crick are their #1 and #2.

 

according to Rant sports, the Sox have an interest in Zob.

 

Waring, popup and other malware thingies ....

 

http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2014/12/30/m...-zobrist-trade/

How about we avoid the malware

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/01/03/lev...s-or-white-sox/

His wife would be a good acquisition.

How about we avoid the malware

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/01/03/lev...s-or-white-sox/

 

go ahead and make life easy see if i care.

Back to Zobrist. Rays traded him to the A's for a couple of pretty good prospects plus a catcher (Jaso) who can hit a little bit. I'm glad it was the A's giving up the prospects, not us.

Back to Zobrist. Rays traded him to the A's for a couple of pretty good prospects plus a catcher (Jaso) who can hit a little bit. I'm glad it was the A's giving up the prospects, not us.

 

as you said, comparing what the A's gave up and making a similar talent from the sox

i too am glad the sox didn't fall for it.