2015-16 NHL thread

[Panerista]

Well Eddie O thinks they are one, maybe two D men short. Because you know the Hawks are so deep on the blue line

He's probably right. Will be interesting to see if Jim Nill addresses that this season or next.

[RockRaines]

Whatever Dallas. You aren't winning the cup

[SoxAce]

Still can't believe how awful that trade turned out.

[Panerista]

Still can't believe how awful that trade turned out.

Bowman was out negotiated by a better GM.

[Southwest Sider]

Bowman was out negotiated by a better GM.

 

I'm not like most Hawks fans who are Bowman apologists who think he is the most brilliant mind in the NHL. Even so, it's pretty clear what happened here. There was no "negotiation". There never should have been one, because the Hawks absolutely, positively had to unload Sharp. If a GM pays a dear price for a player that a team has literally zero choice but to trade, then they are an idiot, no matter how good the player. There was no leverage whatsoever for Bowman to even have negotiations. Jim Nill, credit where it's due, stuck to his guns. But that's what he should have done. That's what every other GM in the league should have done. Basically, they tell Stan Bowman "this is the deal, take it or leave it." Bowman can try to negotiate, but the counter to that is "Look, we know the position you are in and you have no leverage. You have no choice but to accept our (terrible) deal or violate the league salary cap".

 

Knowing that, I give Jim Nill credit for actually being the GM that acquired Sharp, but beyond that I don't give him credit for shrewd negotiations because his play was so obvious that even someone like I could see that this was really the only way this could transpire.

Edited December 23, 2015 by South Sider

[LittleHurt05]

I'm not like most Hawks fans who are Bowman apologists who think he is the most brilliant mind in the NHL. Even so, it's pretty clear what happened here. There was no "negotiation". There never should have been one, because the Hawks absolutely, positively had to unload Sharp. If a GM pays a dear price for a player that a team has literally zero choice but to trade, then they are an idiot, no matter how good the player. There was no leverage whatsoever for Bowman to even have negotiations. Jim Nill, credit where it's due, stuck to his guns. But that's what he should have done. That's what every other GM in the league should have done. Basically, they tell Stan Bowman "this is the deal, take it or leave it." Bowman can try to negotiate, but the counter to that is "Look, we know the position you are in and you have no leverage. You have no choice but to accept our (terrible) deal or violate the league salary cap".

 

Knowing that, I give Jim Nill credit for actually being the GM that acquired Sharp, but beyond that I don't give him credit for shrewd negotiations because his play was so obvious that even someone like I could see that this was really the only way this could transpire.

 

The big mistake by Bowman was acquiring a player who his coach had zero interest in playing. Obviously we have no idea what other offers were on the table, but Daley & Q was never gonna work.

[Steve9347]

Patrick Sharp scored 43 points last year. The guy is nothing special. He's on pace for maybe 65 points this year on the highest scoring team in the NHL. It was time for him to move along, and if Brandon Saad were on Dallas in his place he'd be doing about the same.

 

It is what it is. In the era of the cap you can't keep these guys together. As long as Kane, Toews, and Keith are on the same roster, I'd say Bowman is doing a hell of a job.

[Steve9347]

Quick piss break to complain about the fact that people would worry about losing a 34 yo sharp when Bowman plucked Panarin who's having a better season as a rookie. Stupid

[LDF]

Bowman was out negotiated by a better GM.

 

for sure, esp before the draft and what stan thought was the players value. same thing goes to the daley and asking for too much as a rtn.

 

but that was before.

 

the point was, with sharp, he HAD to trade him, regardless of the rtn. he needed to keep the harmony on the team in a good way. so what the hawks got was a throw in for salary. nothing more.

 

sharp is a good player..... i will leave it at that.

[LDF]

Patrick Sharp scored 43 points last year. The guy is nothing special. He's on pace for maybe 65 points this year on the highest scoring team in the NHL. It was time for him to move along, and if Brandon Saad were on Dallas in his place he'd be doing about the same.

 

It is what it is. In the era of the cap you can't keep these guys together. As long as Kane, Toews, and Keith are on the same roster, I'd say Bowman is doing a hell of a job.

 

ref saad, different story there. sharp was for the team harmony, saad wanted the money.

 

well saad got his SC rings, now he wanted the money. can't blame him, that was his priorities.

[CanOfCorn]

ref saad, different story there. sharp was for the team harmony, saad wanted the money.

 

well saad got his SC rings, now he wanted the money. can't blame him, that was his priorities.

 

Sharp needed to go because he had value. Proof, you say? Bickell is still on this team. No value. Even if you don't like the trade Bowman made...as someone said earlier, he was under the thumb of the salary cap and had to move Sharp.

 

Nobody's perfect people. Every GM has good and bad trades/signings.

 

And one thing about the Stars...

 

Playing well in December ≠ playing well in May/June.

[LDF]

Sharp needed to go because he had value. Proof, you say? Bickell is still on this team. No value. Even if you don't like the trade Bowman made...as someone said earlier, he was under the thumb of the salary cap and had to move Sharp.

 

Nobody's perfect people. Every GM has good and bad trades/signings.

 

And one thing about the Stars...

 

Playing well in December ≠ playing well in May/June.

 

how many people forgot,

 

sharp had to go, b/c of the keith's marriage and the divorce.

 

it had nothing to do with salary and salary cap.

 

ref bickell stan screwed up that neg on a trade at the draft as well.

Edited December 23, 2015 by LDF

[soxfan49]

Bowman was out negotiated by a better GM.

How can you say Nill is a better GM than Bowman? Bowman has torn down a great team twice and won 3 cups. He tore down 2010's team and won again in 2013. He tore down 2013's team and won again 2 years later. He has added guys like Shaw, Hjalmarsson, Oduya & Saad (originally), Panarin, Anisimov, etc. What has Nill done exactly?

 

Jim Nill has done literally nothing to prove he's a top 3 NHL GM. He dealt for Spezza and he's pretty underwhelming. Sharp was average last year and like Steve said, he's on pace to do better but on a loaded offensive team. If Nill was such a bright mind, he would have acquired more defense, not bums like Ales Hemsky.

 

Last night was just as I predicted- the Hawks get blown out and people overreact.

 

This was a statement game for Dallas. I'm sure the Hawks really give a s*** that they lost a game in mid-December to the Dallas Stars. Meanwhile this was the biggest game for the Stars in a long time.

Edited December 23, 2015 by soxfan49

[soxfan49]

how many people forgot,

 

sharp had to go, b/c of the keith's marriage and the divorce.

 

it had nothing to do with salary and salary cap.

 

ref bickell stan screwed up that neg on a trade at the draft as well. mention on tsn hockey. geeze

No, Sharp was traded because of salary cap reasons. The Hawks won a cup last year with the Keith/Sharp nonsense. When these players get on the ice/field/court, it doesn't matter anymore.

[LDF]

No, Sharp was traded because of salary cap reasons. The Hawks won a cup last year with the Keith/Sharp nonsense. When these players get on the ice/field/court, it doesn't matter anymore.

 

since you really do not work for the front office of the hawks, you really don't know. there was a huge discussion on this board about that. now, the salary cat does comes into player here, the hawks got back 4.2 mil in salary and sharp contract was 5.9 going out.

 

but in order to sweeten the deal johns was added to the sharp pkg to entice dal to do the trade.

 

they the hawks needed to get sharp off the team.

[Kyyle23]

since you really do not work for the front office of the hawks, you really don't know. there was a huge discussion on this board about that. now, the salary cat does comes into player here, the hawks got back 4.2 mil in salary and sharp contract was 5.9 going out.

 

but in order to sweeten the deal johns was added to the sharp pkg to entice dal to do the trade.

 

they the hawks needed to get sharp off the team.

 

So the salary cap isn't a likely reason but a rumored affair by sharp with Keith's wife is a probable reason?

[LDF]

And neither do you.

 

We have two things to go off of. What some AWFUL site like SportsMockery ran with, or what both Keith and Sharp said about the situation, including Sharp AFTER he was traded to Dallas, and still texting with Seabrook and Keith.

 

I'll choose to believe the latter. But you choose to believe whatever you want.

 

and i am soooo glad you can point out the obvious on this one, i was soo worried someone will be needed to explain it to you.

 

i will explain this to you.

 

obvious they will say all positive stuff after the trade. what is sharp going to do or say, yeah i did the big nasty with keith wife and cause their divorce?? all the while being happily married???? a real capt obvious.

 

come and think about this....

 

now the other part is your opinion, like mine and anyone else will be a subjective opinion and only the real party will know the truth.

 

so think what you want.

 

btw, i don't visit sports monkey to tell you the truth, i don't remember hearing about it until a month ago on this site.

Edited December 23, 2015 by LDF

[LDF]

So the salary cap isn't a likely reason but a rumored affair by sharp with Keith's wife is a probable reason?

 

oh but don't let that burst your bubble ..... don't let something like the locker room fight they had..... sway your opportunity to get a dig on someone. that may ruin your day.

[Kyyle23]

oh but don't let that burst your bubble ..... don't let something like the locker room fight they had..... sway your opportunity to get a dig on someone. that may ruin your day.

 

Hey, don't let the reality of the salary cap ruin your day. Just curious, say no rumors of a locker room fight or affair happened, would the Blackhawks be able to keep Sharp on the team?

[LDF]

Hey, don't let the reality of the salary cap ruin your day. Just curious, say no rumors of a locker room fight or affair happened, would the Blackhawks be able to keep Sharp on the team?

 

on a friendly discussion.

 

there are other factors at play. and i hate to go this route but really poor planning and maybe just an unrealistic request for a rtn on bickell.

 

but lets also that another look at something that also happen, the Saad trade and not only the reasons, but what they go in rtn, plus resigning to AA to a new contract.

 

now take all that, imo lets forget about all the other BS locker room stuff, the hawks would have been in a better position to deal with it. getting Artemi Panarin was not only a life saver but it prob help stan on all the negative stuff that was coming from TSN hockey site.

 

i don't know, but with Saad gone, the salary cap st a lot different looking at the time.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

on a friendly discussion.

 

there are other factors at play. and i hate to go this route but really poor planning and maybe just an unrealistic request for a rtn on bickell.

 

but lets also that another look at something that also happen, the Saad trade and not only the reasons, but what they go in rtn, plus resigning to AA to a new contract.

 

now take all that, imo lets forget about all the other BS locker room stuff, the hawks would have been in a better position to deal with it. getting Artemi Panarin was not only a life saver but it prob help stan on all the negative stuff that was coming from TSN hockey site.

 

i don't know, but with Saad gone, the salary cap st a lot different looking at the time.

 

You keep bringing rumors and innuendo into the discussion. Before last season even started they were saying it was very likely Sharps last season with the Hawks because of the cap. Even right now after Saad and Sharp were traded, the Hawks are right up against the cap. It was not realistic to keep him, they didn't trade him because he did or did not f*** Keith's wife, they traded him because they could not afford him.

 

[LDF]

You keep bringing rumors and innuendo into the discussion. Before last season even started they were saying it was very likely Sharps last season with the Hawks because of the cap. Even right now after Saad and Sharp were traded, the Hawks are right up against the cap. It was not realistic to keep him, they didn't trade him because he did or did not f*** Keith's wife, they traded him because they could not afford him.

 

and this whole site is for rumors, innuendo's and discussions. as i said before, no one on any org is going to admit it, at least now. btw, what will it take for you to understand that a rumor, is what many sports site deal with, and yet, you have no problems with that. you have the luxury of sitting back and pick and chose what you chose to accept.

 

fact, during the season, it was rpt on a news paper or sports site of a fight between sharp and keith,

what spilled out was rumors of a wife have an affair and what is known is keith divorce his wife due to some reason.. the hawks didn't want to discuss nothing of it.

 

when saad was traded, the hawks had some room to play with. Artem Anisimov at the time of the trade was making 3,283 mil and then stan resign him to the tume of 4,550 mil. more that 1,2 mil more. if everything taken into consideration, if that bs in the lockroom didn't happen, the hawks would have been able to make it work.

 

you can not sit here and pick and choose and say this is the results, look at everything at the time of the trade and player movement.

[Panerista]

How can you say Nill is a better GM than Bowman? Bowman has torn down a great team twice and won 3 cups. He tore down 2010's team and won again in 2013. He tore down 2013's team and won again 2 years later. He has added guys like Shaw, Hjalmarsson, Oduya & Saad (originally), Panarin, Anisimov, etc. What has Nill done exactly?

Stan has won two cups, no small feat.

 

However, Nill started with a LOT less. The Blackhawks were going to be good, plain and simple.

 

Nill has taken a team that had nothing and added Tyler Seguin, Jason Spezza, and Patrick Sharp (and the Blackhawks' top defensive prospect) and has created a team that actually runs four deep.

 

 

 

Jim Nill has done literally nothing to prove he's a top 3 NHL GM. He dealt for Spezza and he's pretty underwhelming. Sharp was average last year and like Steve said, he's on pace to do better but on a loaded offensive team. If Nill was such a bright mind, he would have acquired more defense, not bums like Ales Hemsky.

Jim Nill did the Hockey equivalent of trading for Jonathan Toews entering his prime. The Seguin trade will go down as the best in Stars franchise history at the end of Seguin's career.

 

Regarding defense, maybe, except it turns out John Klingberg is a stud, so one could say "maybe we shouldn't move for defense if we have this stud and having Hemsky will make Spezza more comfortable.

 

By the way, Spezza is great. He was slow to start last season, but he is certainly worth the garbage Nill through away. He has more points than Toews and dominated the faceoff last night.

 

This was a statement game for Dallas. I'm sure the Hawks really give a s*** that they lost a game in mid-December to the Dallas Stars. Meanwhile this was the biggest game for the Stars in a long time.

That sounds an awful lot like making excuses. Dallas was on a second game of a back to back and were a step slower than they normally are.

Edited December 23, 2015 by AustinIllini

[Panerista]

And neither do you.

 

We have two things to go off of. What some AWFUL site like SportsMockery ran with, or what both Keith and Sharp said about the situation, including Sharp AFTER he was traded to Dallas, and still texting with Seabrook and Keith.

 

I'll choose to believe the latter. But you choose to believe whatever you want.

I'm with Tony on this one for sure. Sharp had to go and we all knew he had to go. Hockey is a business. It has nothing to do with personal issues off the ice.

Edited December 23, 2015 by AustinIllini

[Kyyle23]

and this whole site is for rumors, innuendo's and discussions. as i said before, no one on any org is going to admit it, at least now. btw, what will it take for you to understand that a rumor, is what many sports site deal with, and yet, you have no problems with that. you have the luxury of sitting back and pick and chose what you chose to accept.

 

fact, during the season, it was rpt on a news paper or sports site of a fight between sharp and keith,

what spilled out was rumors of a wife have an affair and what is known is keith divorce his wife due to some reason.. the hawks didn't want to discuss nothing of it.

 

when saad was traded, the hawks had some room to play with. Artem Anisimov at the time of the trade was making 3,283 mil and then stan resign him to the tume of 4,550 mil. more that 1,2 mil more. if everything taken into consideration, if that bs in the lockroom didn't happen, the hawks would have been able to make it work.

 

you can not sit here and pick and choose and say this is the results, look at everything at the time of the trade and player movement.

 

Lmao you cannot state fact and then follow that with a rumor!

 

The fact of this discussion is you are stating that Sharp was traded because of the problems with keith and sharp, and that is where I completely disagree with you.