1. yet another dumb fundamental play by a white sox player... happens over and over.

 

2. Pitching to murphy.

 

 

The incompetence is pretty amazing.

 

Now IF they work on that in practice and Abreu screwed it up...

 

However how many times do we see these dumb mistakes?

Edited August 13, 201510 yr by harkness

Said in the game thread, but no way you can blame the coaches for Abreu's blunder.

Said in the game thread, but no way you can blame the coaches for Abreu's blunder.

 

 

So when players make tactical mistakes you can't blame the coaching staff?

 

Say what?

So when players make tactical mistakes you can't blame the coaching staff?

 

Say what?

 

It's not like this is an isolated incident. Team's just not mentally into games. Players change, the manager hasn't. Same story for 4 years now.

Abreu is a terrible fielder.

Sox won because in a battle of suck the Angels sucked more.

These are big league players. A manager shouldn't have to go over "Baseball 101" with these guys. In fact I think it would be borderline insulting to have them work on things like where to go with the baseball in certain situations.

 

It was just a brain fart on Abreus part.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 12, 2015 -> 09:19 PM) *

I can't believe somebody didn't scream "throw it home" to Abreu. He had plenty of time. All he had to do was look home and he had plenty of time to make the right play.

 

Baseball is a weird sport. Danks works his ass off to get the easy 2-1 win. Robertson does the job. All Abreu has to do is not commit the dumbest mental error imaginable ... yet he commits that mental error. Obviously don't like the sox chances with Duke in the game. This loss will be almost as bad as the McEwing gift to the opponent loss.

 

 

 

The Sox managed to win, but we've seen some really dubious plays out of Ramirez and Abreu, and Viciedo as well.

 

One just has to wonder how much time is dedicated to fundamentals in the youth programs over there, where signing bonuses are related to speed, athletic ability, how far you can hit the ball or how hard you can throw it...there's that saying in the Dominican you can't walk your way off the island.

 

The Latin American style of play tends to be more exciting and dynamic, whereas the polar opposite is to be found in Japan, Korea and Taiwan...it's all about what they choose to focus on, developmentally. IMO the Asian style of play is much more team-based. Iguchi, for example, almost never made a mental mistake.

 

And it's not about specific countries or IQ, as Ozzie Guillen and Jose Valentin were off the charts in terms of baseball intuition/smarts/instincts.

 

 

 

 

Abreu is a terrible fielder.

 

Living in New England, I was estatic when the White Sox got Abreu instead of the Red Sox. I remember reading the Red Sox stopped at $50 mil because they felt Abreu was eventually only going to be a DH and they figured Ortiz still had a few years left in the tank. He is certainly a gifted offensive player, but I hope the White Sox knew going in that he would struggle in the field. Hopefully when the sox dump LaRoche, they move Abreu to DH age withstanding.

 

Watching this game, it was actually the Angels who made a lot more mistakes than the White Sox, even with the legendary Mike Scioscia on the bench. They looked nothing like a first place team, not only in that game, but in that series.

Watching this game, it was actually the Angels who made a lot more mistakes than the White Sox, even with the legendary Mike Scioscia on the bench. They looked nothing like a first place team, not only in that game, but in that series.

 

I don't really remember any could you name a few? Not saying you are wrong.

Edited August 13, 201510 yr by harkness

Abreu is a terrible fielder.

 

Actually he isn't.

Watching this game, it was actually the Angels who made a lot more mistakes than the White Sox, even with the legendary Mike Scioscia on the bench. They looked nothing like a first place team, not only in that game, but in that series.

 

Mike Scioscia and Kenny Williams have the same legacy deal going on, they are both living off one great season 10+ years ago.

Living in New England, I was estatic when the White Sox got Abreu instead of the Red Sox. I remember reading the Red Sox stopped at $50 mil because they felt Abreu was eventually only going to be a DH and they figured Ortiz still had a few years left in the tank. He is certainly a gifted offensive player, but I hope the White Sox knew going in that he would struggle in the field. Hopefully when the sox dump LaRoche, they move Abreu to DH age withstanding.

The Red Sox were actually going to try him at 3B.

 

I am not aiming this next statement at the post I responded to, but it truly amazes me how some actually think Robin needs to tell Abreu his stepping on the bag eliminates the force and lets the runner score. Does he have to tell him every day? Does he have to remind the infielders on a grounder they should throw to first base? Where does this end? When your kids screw up, do you discipline them, or do you discipline yourself for something that apparently was your failure?

Edited August 13, 201510 yr by Dick Allen

The Red Sox were actually going to try him at 3B.

 

Abreu has 6 errors which puts him among the leaders in that category.

 

However Abreu has made a ton of good plays at 1b, and he makes a lot of good throws.

 

He isn't great but he isn't terrible either.

 

 

Frank Thomas was terrible... but no one cared because back then no one cared about Fangraphs and WAR.

 

 

I don't really remember any could you name a few? Not saying you are wrong.

 

The Angels had two runners thrown out on the bases last night for starters.

The Red Sox were actually going to try him at 3B.

 

I am not aiming this next statement at the post I responded to, but it truly amazes me how some actually think Robin needs to tell Abreu his stepping on the bag eliminates the force and lets the runner score. Does he have to tell him every day? Does he have to remind the infielders on a grounder they should throw to first base? Where does this end? When your kids screw up, do you discipline them, or do you discipline yourself for something that apparently was your failure?

 

 

I really don't know how much major league managers and coaching staffs go over situational baseball. If Ventura assumed Abreu knows what to do in that situation - then that's bad coaching.

If they have gone over it and Abreu messed it up.. then Abreu takes more of the fault.

 

As far as the parent analogy goes. If my kids are constantly screwing up - it very well could be my fault for not knowing how to guide them - but yes sometimes there isn't much any parent can do.

 

However when you see a team make so many fundamental mistakes it's not unreasonable to see the fault in the coaches. That's completely reasonable.

 

It MAY not be their fault but to infer it is their fault is not fanatical.

The Angels had two runners thrown out on the bases last night for starters.

 

Another worth noting is the Angels had runners on 3rd and less than two outs once last night in extra innings, and didn't score. They had a runner on 3rd base 3 times in extra innings and didn't score.

I really don't know how much major league managers and coaching staffs go over situational baseball. If Ventura assumed Abreu knows what to do in that situation - then that's bad coaching.

If they have gone over it and Abreu messed it up.. then Abreu takes more of the fault.

 

As far as the parent analogy goes. If my kids are constantly screwing up - it very well could be my fault for not knowing how to guide them - but yes sometimes there isn't much any parent can do.

 

However when you see a team make so many fundamental mistakes it's not unreasonable to see the fault in the coaches. That's completely reasonable.

 

It MAY not be their fault but to infer it is their fault is not fanatical.

Yet against the worst pitcher in the league, and against a team with a horrible, historically bad offense, and perhaps the dumbest manager in history, the Angels lost, and were swept. Amazing how that could possibly happen.

Edited August 13, 201510 yr by Dick Allen

The Angels had two runners thrown out on the bases last night for starters.

 

Are you talking about Connor out on the line drive? That's the only play I can remember.

Yet against the worst pitcher in the league, and against a team with a horrible, historically bad offense, and perhaps the dumbest manager in history, the Angels lost, and were swept. Amazing how that could possibly happen.

 

 

It's baseball - the manager's effect on the outcome (as you have said 1000 times) is often not important... doesn't change the perception of competence or incompetence.

 

Bad teams having winning streaks all the time. The series last night doesn't define Ventura or the White Sox team this year. We will know at the end.

 

Danks actually has been pitching well lately... sure hope it lasts.

Edited August 13, 201510 yr by harkness

It's baseball - the manager's effect on the outcome (as you have said 1000 times) is often not important... doesn't change the perception of competence or incompetence.

 

Bad teams having winning streaks all the time. The series last night doesn't define Ventura or the White Sox team this year. We will know at the end.

 

Danks actually has been pitching well lately... sure hope it lasts.

 

Then why did you start this thread?

Are you talking about Connor out on the line drive? That's the only play I can remember.

 

Trout was thrown out at home as well.

Then why did you start this thread?

 

I didn't say it NEVER effects the outcome of the game. They play 162 games.

 

I thought the lack of fundamentals and the decision making were going to cost the White Sox the game... luckily it didn't.

 

 

Trout was thrown out at home as well.

 

Yeah I missed a couple innings I never saw that play.